Hacker News Reader

Hacker News

Comment by swombat | Hacker News Reader

Full thread

swombat

Now try giving that 2.5 year old a Netbook with Windows on it and see how well that works.

View on HN

Now try giving that 2.5 year old a violin and see how well that works.

Now try giving that 2.5 year old a graphing calculator and see how well that works.

Now try giving that 2.5 year old a drum kit and see how well that works.

Now try giving that 2.5 year old canvas with a palette of oil paints and see how well that works.

Those are great examples. Regular PCs are like giving people drum kits because it satisfies all the "requirements".

The iPad is like giving you maracas, a tambourine, or bongo drums. Same functionality? No. Vastly more fun for beginners? Yes.

I realize we're stretching the analogy thin, but maracas, bongos, and tambourines can all be had for $3-$20 each.

Very true, but are we considering cost or usability?

No, the iPad are maracas, that can transform themselves in a tambourine, or bongo drums, or in a scientific calculator, or in document editor, or in 500,000 other things.

Whoa, I didn't know there were 500,000 apps in the app store. I would posit that there aren't even that many potentially different apps that are possible, even considering monkeys on typewriters with an infinite amount of time.

A good list of things which require skill to use. Is the iPad the closest we've gotten to a computer which does not require skill to use? Other examples?

You had me thinking there for a few minutes. Why exactly do I appreciate the ease of use of a iPad but would most certainly not appreciate the ease of use of a violin where you just tap a few times on a touchscreen and which then plays for you?

I think it has something to do with abstractions. There are no abstractions when playing a violin. You move the bow which causes strings to vibrate and that’s it. User Interfaces are built on abstractions. CLIs, mouse interfaces, touch interfaces, all are abstractions because nobody would want to edit a photo without those.

Just because the iPad uses different abstractions doesn’t mean it’s the computer version of my phony easy to use violin. I honestly think there are ways to improve our abstractions and the iPad might be a step in that direction. I also see no reason why a 2.5 year old shouldn’t be able to pick up at least some of those abstractions which are also fitting for grown-ups.

(I actually think that it’s possible to build better versions of that one example you mentioned that also uses abstractions: graphing calculators. Most graphing calculator level math is certainly too hard for 2.5 year olds, but when it comes to inputting stuff many graphing calculators suck. Incidentally, there is not a single great graphing calculator available for the iPhone. I really wanted one.)

It might also have something to do with the pride you take in (or the appreciation you have of) the skill required to paly the the violin. Plenty of people appreciate guitar hero, for instance, which is far easier to play than a guitar (has a higher layer of abstraction in the terms above, if I understand them correctly). On the other hand, true "masters" of gh love it also because anybody can do something with it, but few can do what they do.

Yes. You are absolutely correct.

Every one of those things you've listed have a _horrible_ user interface. My ability to make music, calculate complex equations, play the drums, and create art is seriously hampered by my inability to use those devices.

As a result, I am neither a musician, complex-equation-calculator, drummer, or painter.

That 2.5 yr old can spell already which many kinder-gardeners twice the age can't, and same toddler is _clearly_ already familiar with the interface as in swiping to scroll and hitting the home button to go back to the app menu. It was not a "new" toy, just a bigger version of a toy (s)he's already very familiar with

Spell, not so sure. Matching letter shapes - she's got that down pat.

I kept thinking to myself, ”I’m not sure I see the scholastic value in that game; it’s so easy to cheat!”

It would probably have the same effect as giving the iPad to a 2.5 year old with no iPhone experience. The movie basically shows that the big screen works almost the same as the small screen and even kids don't get confused. It tells absolutely nothing about iPad itself imho.

So yeah - try giving a "laptop with Windows"-savvy 2.5 year old a netbook with windows...

Exactly. So many people miss the fundamental UI shift that's happening here. We don't want a desktop in another form factor.

If it had a touch screen it might be just fine. It's the mouse and keyboard which add a layer of abstraction, rather than the operating platform itself.

I do feel that such comparisons are akin to saying 'you are not a good horse breeder because I have just invented the bicycle'. Owning a horse for your transport needs is no longer a sensible choice for most people, but that hardly obviates all use cases.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com