Apple Unveils the Apple Watch Series 2 | Hacker News Reader

Apple Unveils the Apple Watch Series 2

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While I love gadgets, the idea of wearing something on my wrist whose sole purpose is to interrupt me with notifications (most of which I would not want) and that offers an extremely bright display is pretty much the last gadget I'd want.

Even with the new color temperature adjustments on the iPhone, looking at the screen in the dark is quite unpleasant.

I would much prefer an e-ink smart watch.

> I would much prefer an e-ink smart watch.

Then go get one, the Pebble has been around for years.

I have a Pebble Time Steel, and I love it. And I'm amazed at how blinding other smartwatches are.

Out of curiosity, have you written any software for it? I'm considering getting one, and the SDK looks attractive.

I have, it's great fun, the documentation is fantastic. Reminds me - I need to update my watchfaces to the new SDK this weekend!

Did you use C or JavaScript? I tried using C once, but I gave up.

Have not yet, but I am planning to once I get some free time.

I have a Pebble Steel and I hate it that Pebble would not fix an inherent "screen tearing" issue that they have with their hardware.

They fixed it with the screens in the Pebble Time series and the Pebble 2. It's a connector problem, so fixing it required a redesign.

In that case, they should own up to it and make it up in a meaningful way to their customers who backed them initially. They've lost a customer.

I have a Pebble Time and love it!

The display is not bright, can be read without backlight even.

The interface is well thought through and pleasant to use (even though it doesn't have a touch screen). Filtering unwanted notifications is super easy.

I find myself looking much much less at my phone since I have that watch.

Oh and the battery life is the best!

I think a lot of people use it for tracking... I am personally excited that I can use it as a lap counter now for swimming - counting laps for 90 minutes is a pain. The fact that I can track running as well, start wearing a watch again, and get notifications, is just icing on the cake.

Lap counters have existed for a while, but having it integrate with my phone seamlessly is great for record keeping.

Still mind-boggled that I get to wear something so awesome on my wrist.

You'd be shocked that already existed before Apple Watch - made by Garmin.

I feel Apple Watch will be a school book example of Christensen's disruptive tech for traditional sport watch makers like Garmin, Suunto, Polar et al. It's not yet good enough for tracking serious training (prosumer use), but it's steadily eating the lower end of the market and in a few years it would be better than anything the old gang can make.

Honestly, I think you just did a great job of describing FitBit vs Apple.

No matter how much the Apple hardware may catch-up with Garmin etc's capabilities, Apple's closed system is at odds with the data mobility sought by most advanced Garmin/Suunto users that I know e.g. to/from Strava, MapMyEverything, TrainingPeaks etc.

I think Apple will be happy to leave the Prosumers behind and appeal to people who are less active, and maybe even be a first step towards dedicated sports watches. At least for now.

After a year with the Apple Watch as my day-to-day watch and Garmin Fenix 3 for sports (swim, bike, run, hike), I've now switched to Garmin Forerunner 235 for day-to-day and Fenix 3 for sport purely so I can get all of my data into a single repository, easily.

The one killer app I'm missing on the Apple Watch is Siri.

>The one killer app I'm missing on the Apple Watch is Siri

Agree -- I love my FR235, but Siri is the only feature that makes me want an Apple Watch. On balance, I still prefer my Garmin, though.

> Apple's closed system is at odds with the data mobility sought by most advanced Garmin/Suunto users that I know e.g. to/from Strava, MapMyEverything, TrainingPeaks etc.

You clearly haven't used the watch or any HealthKit related apps. All of the data collected in any HealthKit app or accessory is available to all of the others. Strava knows if I ran using Nike Run Club yesterday, Withings knows that I biked with my Wahoo cadence counter over the weekend, and my diet tracker knows how much I weigh from my Withings scale. There is no lock-in such as you describe, it's incredibly open, portable, and under my control.

I have the Fenix 3 after owning an Android Wear. Garmin has done a great job, it is an incredibly functional watch with great battery life and few annoyances.

Garmin Fenix 3 HR owner here. Nothing else comes close to (a) quality of tracking along with (b) battery life.

I get 5+ days of battery including two 35+ minute GPS tracked sessions, and permanent 1-second update HR tracking all day.

The only improvement I'd like is if it was about 3mm slimmer, so it would fit under my shirt cuffs a bit better ;)

> Still mind-boggled that I get to wear something so awesome on my wrist.

I have a totally different feeling. When I run or swim, it's one of the rare time where I can disconnect from technology. I spend already too much time in front of a screen at home and work.

I agree that it can be somewhat useful (but far from necessary) to keep records but for me it's too much of a disturbance. Not worth it.

> Even with the new color temperature adjustments on the iPhone, looking at the screen in the dark is quite unpleasant.

It's annoying to turn off and on but there is a fake night mode that you can use. Go to General > Accessibility > Invert Colors (or Display Accommodations > Invert Colors). It's like a fake night mode which is great for reading in bed.

You can bind that to a triple press of the home button in Accessibility, too.

I use this on the iPad for when I'm viewing PDFs, it works quite well.

Also for reading in bed.

Wait, how? I tried to hook it up to the global accessibility pop up but couldn't figure it out. Triple-press home would be awesome

In iOS 9.3.5, probably also most earlier versions: Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Accessibility Shortcut, and check "Invert Colors" in the list.

Or just type "Shortcut" in the search field I've just now noticed they added at some point in the last five years, and it'll be the first result. That's probably quicker.

I wouldn't say the sole purpose of a smartwatch is to deliver notifications. They're just slightly more useful watches, and that's more or less it.

I have an Apple Watch, and while it's not the best product Apple has ever made, I still find the time to put it on every day. I find that it's convenient in a lot of small ways. I also like wearing it through the night and using it as an additional alarm clock.

I used it for few months, and then one day I forgot to charge them - then I just didn't bother to charge ever again..

These Apple presentations were fun to watch a few years back... Maybe I just got older.

A. No Steve Jobs B. They haven't really done anything other than incremental updates (faster, better camera) since the iPhone 5. I think the 4 was a huge upgrade as well.

iPhone 3G:

App Store

+white color

iPhone 3GS:

Copy + paste

Video

iPhone 4:

Facetime

Retina display

Front camera, much better quality rear camera

Running more than one app at once

Wallpaper and multiple homescreens without JBing first

Drops calls if you "hold it that way"

-white color

iPhone 4S:

Siri

+white color

iPhone 5:

Tethering

Headphone port changes from top to bottom

Taller screen

EarPods

No glass on back

iPod app renamed to "Music" (A SAD DAY)

-black color

-white color

+dark gray color

+gray color

iPhone 5s:

Touch ID

OS looks better

+gold color

iPhone 6:

Larger screen

Harder to use with one hand

Odd shape

Bends

"Phablet" version also available

iPhone SE:

iPhone 5 with iPhone 6 specs

iPhone 6S:

3D touch

+pink color

iPhone 7:

Dual-lens camera

Water "proof"

Earphone jack removed

Stereo speakers

+black color

AirPods (for rich people)

You can customize the notifications. The biggest value I've found for the watch is that I take out my iPhone less, and actually spend less time looking at notifications.

Agreed. I find it useful to answer, and many times reject, phone calls.

I noticed the same thing. I was actually very agains the Apple Watch, but received one for free from my workplace so I just gave it a shot. And I actually fell in love with it, mostly because I don’t use it as an extension of my phone (got some apps on it, but I really only use it for the time and notifications). The Series 2 is not enough of a step up to justify buying one, but I’d be interested in seeing what Series 3 has to offer next year.

I use mine to respond to texts and answer phone calls.

The scribble thing in watchOS 3 is pretty crazy with how well it works. watchOS 3 in general is a huge improvement.

But, you know, to each their own.

I also use Apple Pay when available. The real killer features are health and safety. In the future, everyone will wear a smartwatch:

https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/in-the-future-everyo...

Apple made incremental progress on the health features today. Look at Fitbit sales:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/fitbit-leads-wearables-market-a...

Apple will be doing more to target this market.

Yah, it does work well. I do a lot with my watch.

* Morning alarm clock (buzzes me instead of noise - key when I sleep with my kids) * Heartrate tracking (all day long across multiple things - biking, walking, resting, etc) * Sleep tracking * Notifications (small part, but useful) * Calorie burn * Sunrise/sunset * Temp outdoors * And of course, date/time

I have a complication setup that delivers 6 stats quickly. Biggest feature for me. For quantifying my data, the watch has been really good for me. I'll prob go series 2 so I can go all in for water activities.

Looking forward in the future to measuring even more.

You sleep with it on? When do you charge it?

I don't often sleep with mine on (usually just dump it on the nightstand if I forget to put it in the charger).

If I forget to charge overnight, I just drop it on the charger 1st thing in the morning, and it's usually charged by the time I leave for work. This even works if I happen to do a morning workout - even with 20% I can complete an hour, drop it in charger, shower, eat and it'll be charged enough for the day (usu. 80%+).

I toyed with the idea of having an extra charger for my car, but seriously don't need it.

> whose sole purpose is to interrupt me with notifications

But this one has Pokemon Go on it!! Waiting for them to have a knob that goes to 11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to_eleven

On the subject of e-ink smart watches, I love my Pebble Time for exactly this reason. One of the backlight settings is Off, and the display is gorgeous. I forget it's even e-ink, because I'm so used to thinking of Kindles when I think of e-ink, with their weird flickering page refreshes. This thing has buttery smooth animations and looks like any other screen to me. The 5-day battery life is certainly helped by this.

The notifications thing really did bug me at first, but fortunately the app allows you to silence notifications. I have mine set to ping me about calendar appointments and text messages, and pretty much nothing else. That strikes a good balance for me.

I'm also waiting for the new Pebble (I had a Pebble time before) or to check some real reviews of Xiaomi Amazfit Smartwatch and see if the battery life is as good as they claim.

A thing I like a lot in these devices is to monitor my sleep, something that is impossible with a device like the Apple Watch that must be in the charger during the night.

> I forget it's even e-ink ... looks like any other screen to me.

That'll be because it isn't e-ink :)

It's an LCD, specifically this[0] Sharp 'memory LCD'. Pebble brand it as "e-paper", but that's just marketing fluff, the technology is unrelated to e-ink (what kindles use).

[0] http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/1-26-inch-memory-lcd.html

! I was not aware of this! And you're right, it's definitely marketed as e-paper, my mistake.

That's still pretty cool! I guess that explains why the display goes dark if the battery actually dies though, as it does require some power to maintain.

I am still in the category of, until I can make calls with it and not need the phone I am not in need of it. I figure by gen 4 or 5 we might get there

Yes I think this is key. If you can leave your phone behind for runs, hikes, biking etc I think it becomes very useful in it's own right. Right now you're still probably going to take that phone for emergency/connection issues.

> Even with the new color temperature adjustments on the iPhone, looking at the screen in the dark is quite unpleasant.

I use the Accessibility-Zoom Filter-Low Light setting to cut the brightness in half, then mapped to a triple-tap on the home button to dim the screen. Even with that, and the screen at the lowest, it's pretty bright at night. I never understood why hardware manufacturers don't let you make the display darker...

This is one of my favourite "hidden tricks".

It's also a great example of what Apple is failing at lately. Discovering everything you're device can do is harder and harder with each update.

A big thick feature manual would be so "not Apple"... And so we get the highlight reel with each OS or hardware update, and have to learn the rest by chance. We Google by chance, we poke around and find things by chance, etc.

The watch notifications replace the vibration of the phone in my pocket.

With the watch I don't take out my phone to see what the vibration is for and then most likely getting lost in the phone, surfing etc.

By adding GPS it seems like they're really doubling down on the ~1 day battery life, which is really annoying. And keep in mind it's not actually a full day if you _use_ the thing. For instance I was trying to compare a Fitbit Charge HR and the Apple Watch in terms of how they tracked my heart rate over a hike a couple months ago. It was an 8 mile loop with some good elevation gain -- took me maybe 4 hours. The Apple Watch died 3/4 of the way through the hike despite being fully charged that morning. The Charge HR has lasted 3 and 4 day trips to the Sierras with room to spare, and it's always capturing heart rate, whereas the Apple Watch is really only doing that when I tell it to.

That's awful. I'm a Charge HR owner and I was considering the Nike Apple Watch (it looks so cool!) but if what you say about the battery life is true than the Apple Watch is completely off the table.

So you _can_ wear it on a hike, you just can't record the whole exercise. The Apple Watch samples your heart rate every 5 minutes or so normally. If you start recording an exercise, it samples much more frequently and also seems to do more communication with your phone. The end result is that any exercise that lasts a long time (hours) will drain the battery fiercely.

but gps is a must if you want accuracy.

But why does it need a GPS when the watch still requires a bluetooth connection to a phone, which already has GPS? Unless it doesn't need a phone anymore?

It's my understanding that it doesn't need a phone anymore for workouts. It never did if you're ok without GPS, but now even GPS is built-in.

I go for a 7-mile walk (which takes ~2 hours) every day, however my Apple Watch tends to end my day with 40-50% battery remaining (last night it ended at 47%). This is with medium brightness, prominent haptic, email notifications limited to VIPs, and only a few third party apps installed. I also generally get few text messages, so appointment reminders and delivery notifications aside, the watch is fairly quiet for most of the day.

There was a period once where it was ending up at 5-10% at the end of the day, however that seemed to be the fault of some app in the background that was apparently thrashing. Powering off then re-powering on the watch got it back up to lasting ~1.5 - 1.8 days on a charge, and that's not recurred since.

That said, I'm also a bit disappointed that Apple isn't pushing for the watch to be able to last 2 to 2.5 days on a charge, to cover the occasional case where you forget to charge it one evening.

Do you actually start an exercise? My watch lasts all day consistently. It can't last all day (or even half a day) when doing whatever it does to record exercise.

I do start an exercise, yes.

Again, may be worth powering off then powering on the watch. In my case, again, something was clearly thrashing in the background and eating nearly an extra 40% of the maximum battery capacity over 16 hours. It's only happened once, but restarting the watch (in which presumably the process was killed then restarted) resolved the excessive power usage.

So far today I've been up since 6AM. It's 11 hours later. I've done a 7.2 mile walk (as an exercise). I have 69% of the battery remaining with another 6 to 7 waking hours left in my day.

This is not my experience at all. I put the watch down when I went to bed with a rather comstamt remaining charge of about 60% and to me it seems other users had similar experiences. Even Apple itself came to the conclusion that there's enough capacity left considering the changes in WatchOS 3.

Is there anything special about the hiking part of your experience? I had the watch on 2 hour bike rides and other workouts of similar duration without trouble - I can't see how 4 hours might a be a problem there.

I bought an LG G Watch when they first launched 2+ years ago and used it for a year every day. I tried the Moto 360 (great looks, awful battery), and LG Urbane, and now I think I have come full circle. I'm using a Pebble Time daily, and waiting for my Pebble Time 2 to arrive.

The gadget appeal has worn off but I still enjoy the functional benefits which (to me) Pebble has hit the sweet spot. A vibe motor you can feel, 8-10 days of battery life, a screen that's good under all conditions (especially sunshine), water proof, tactile buttons to interact with it, great voice translation, not too bulky, etc. Sure it's not as fancy but it just does the critical things I want it to do. The Time 2 fixes a couple desires (heart rate and larger screen) and that should be about it. I think I've found the smart watch I am going to enjoy living with.

Edit: have to add that GPS would be nice too but I am willing to not have it for the battery life.

Hey, thanks for mentioning pebble time. Is 8-10 days a realistic time frame? I got the original pebble off ebay to play with, and it really only lasted 4 days between charges, even with very light usage. For me, personally, it was too much work. That's why I'm curious to see how realistic a week between charges is on the new pebbles.

New pebbles (time) tend to run 6-7 days pretty easy, and I think pebble time steel shoots for 10-day battery life, many people report easy 7 days. https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/3j46zs/whats_your_p... ... I hate to say wait for the Pebble Time 2 (coming end of year) but they'll be adding heart-rate monitor and keeping ~10 day battery life supposedly.

I go a solid week on mine with no real issues. That said I don't push it too often. It's more about not NEEDING to charge it daily. So I forget for 3 or 4 days then I go "Oh, right..." and plug it in. In no time it's good for another week of my bad memory. I would often leave the others home sometimes when I left it in the kitchen over night.

Has anyone developed GPS for the Pebble? A quick google search reveals this Kickstarter [1], but is anyone aware of something more mature or a future Pebble design which will include it.

I'm into trail running and backpacking so battery life and GPS are the two most important features to me.

[1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/655382546/pal-strap-gps...

Pebble core comes to mind: http://help.getpebble.com/customer/en/portal/articles/243992...

Nice, I didn't realize they were working on that--I'll have to do some feature comparisons, but this seems like it might be a better fit.

Garmin makes GPS smart watches with a battery life of 5 to 10 days. I would never dream of downgrading to an apple watch or android gear.

I might go this route too. I love my urbane, it has great looks and, well, great everything, but charging a watch once every two days is getting old. I'm starting to suspect that OLED is a dead-end and that consumers don't want these watches mainly because of the charging hassle. Pebble seems to be the only company taking e-paper watches seriously. I understand you can't have smooth animations and video and such with e-paper, but its a watch, not a mini-phone. Too much of Android Wear relies on the concept of a mini-phone. Same SoC as a phone, same type of screen, etc.

That's where I've ended up too. Were the others cool? No doubt. But realistically I RARELY opened the other fun apps that benefited from the touch screen. 99% of the time it was Reminders, Notifications, Email previews, Voice Text replies, step counting, and of course... the time. All of which the Pebble does like a charm. And not having to squint at it in the sun is just pure joy.

Also a Pokemon Go app for it, which is probably going to blow the top off sales unless people start getting bored with the game any time soon. (Totally scientific analysis of my fellow light rail commuters suggests this is not likely!)

Doesn't mean they will spend hundreds of dollars to do it with their watch.

Doesn't mean they won't, too. I see a lot of smartwatches on the train.

Pokemon Go has already peaked. People have gotten bored with it, and stopped playing.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/business/intelligence/peak-poke...

The data in that link doesn't show people are bored with it and stopped playing.

Some alternative explanations: many people checked it out and some subset of them never really got into it. Downloads slowing don't digest existing users aren't playing. Nor do fewer searches. It could just mean they have fewer questions about the game.

All the link really shows is that in three categories we've hit peak Pokémon.

Peak Pokemon Go was back in mid July:

https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=pokemon%20go

Peak Google search for Pokemon Go was back in July. Not sure that's the same thing.

Hey, Apple missed peak U2 by 25 years. At least they're getting closer!

Unfortunately, the game kind of died from the hand of its creator already. Sure, there is a residual interest from a small amount of people, but nothing like last July. It's also been tainted by the gigantic exposure it got at the beginning, so the community mutated a lot, and people are not that nice now.

I play it periodically still, especially when I travel to other cities where I really enjoy the pokestop point of interest blurbs. Everyone I ran into playing in Boston Commons (a lot of people) was super friendly.

Currently feels like there's not much game to it, the gyms all have level 28 people with 2000 CP pokemon that I have no hope or interest of catching up to. It's basically a cute pedometer + scavenger hunt, with the pokemon collecting being a slightly better motivator than a step count goal.

I wonder if they'll have underwater pokemon

The Pokemon Go app should allow a way to catch a Pokemon via the watch itself. In the demo today, it seemed that one has to take out their iPhone to catch a Pokemon. If so, I think it won't be a great feature.

I mean if you really want to think about it as matching what it's modeled after, then it's not so different from having to reach inside a bag/pocket for pokeballs to throw anyway.

If they add catching to the watch it might become overly simplistic.

But does the screen stay on?

I used to have one of the first-gen Android Wear watches, an LG one. I really liked how it acted as an extension of my phone, it was particularly useful for voice queries (Google still beats the pants off Siri), and directions. But the best feature was that even when sleeping, the LCD screen would still show the time in black-and-white and with the backlight off. It still lasted a full day.

Apple seems to have gone in a different direction, emphasizing the Watch as a fashionable fitness tracker. I don't care as much for the fitness tracking aspect: I'm not an athlete, and GPS tracking on my phone is usually enough to get a rough estimate of things I do. I also don't do workouts for the numbers, which Apple seems to be touting.

Overall, they seem to have prioritized many other energy-draining features over doing the most basic thing I expect from a wrist-mounted device: displaying information. I've had an Apple Watch for almost a year, and its finickiness about turning on or off the display is by far my biggest annoyance.

I don't think the HN crowd is a fan of watches in general, and this doesnt seem like it will be the exception. The question is if in general people are going to buy this thing.

I don't know, I own 4 watches of varying functions/prices. Those who love horology treat it like car nuts -- it's less about practicality and advancements and more about the sentiment behind it. I'd take my 21 jewel seiko SKX007 over any smartwatch any day of the week. To me, and many other watch lovers, the Apple Watch really is just a watch by name only.

Welcome to being a weird niche market that nobody else cares about it. While you're here, try a fountain pen! They're great!

(no, really)

Well the Gen 1 version suffered from ever decreasing sales. So right now it would seem as though the HN crowd and general public are in sync when it comes to interest in the watch. I guess you could argue GPS support could create a strong use case with the fitness vertical and that is not well represented here but not sure if that's true.

Decreasing sales yes. Also provided the second most revenue in watches in the world. Right after Rolex.

Also the only smartwatch in the top 10.

But for how long? "Apple Watch shipments were a different story, with Apple being the only company to post a year-on-year decrease in shipments - almost 58% down" That's from IDC's 2nd quarter report. I appreciate that you might be a big fan but I seriously doubt Rolex is going down 58% YoY.

This is a perfect distillation of otherwise intelligent people losing their capacity for reason when it comes to anything Apple-related. Just ... just "lol".

I like watches myself (have quite a few, have collected american pocket watches in the past). I don't think this has a lot to do with the demographics of the viewers as much as it has to do with Apple not changing much about the watch. If this actually is a complete re-design, I view this as Apple Watch 1.0 v2. They haven't meaningfully expanded what the watch does or introduced new ideas around how it could be used.

The Series 2 is a better Apple Watch, but it's not much more than the Apple Watch was. I don't see many reasons for someone who passed on the first to buy the second. I think that's the source of the reaction here.

I know this is old hat, but I'm just not interested until they make one with a round face. And I say this as a very dedicated Apple-using person (three current Macs in front of me, iPhone 6S in my pocket, internet served over a Time Capsule, an iPad floating around here somewhere...)

Garmin Fenix 3 is round and a fantastic watch. Not going to appease the people looking for eye-candy but it is super functional. I use it for runs and biking, the GPS works well.

In some ways I find it more attractive than the Apple Watch

Pebble Round fits this area very nicely. People are always kinda shocked when they hear it's a smartwatch.

Yeah. I love my Pebble Time Round, I've worn it (almost) every day since I got it (last December). People who don't care about smart watches love it and come up to me and ask what kind of a watch it is.

There's a bunch. I'm partial to my Samsung Gear S2 Classic.

How do you propose they do that without forcing every single app to be redesigned to work on a round screen rather than rectangular?

That's not the consumer's problem. Perhaps the parent is a total minority, I don't know, but a round face is more appealing to me as well. That said, I prefer 'real' watches, so I'm not buying one either way.

On Android smartwatches, you're expected to develop for both square and round screens: https://developer.android.com/training/wearables/ui/layouts....

It would certainly be additional work for developers, but there's precedent for it.

Pebble Time Round exists, and has the exact same problem. Such a huge design fork it's really like writing and supporting two different apps. One with a 90% market share (square screen) and one with 10% market share (round) and which requires so much more work and thought to utilize it effectively.

That doesn't matter to me. If they don't do this by the time I think I need a smartwatch, I'll just buy one from a company other than Apple.

When the Apple Watch was first announced, there were rumors of the watch being able to measure blood glucose. That was exciting news.

So it was disappointing to find out that this was not true. (while writing this comment, I dug around and it seems that there is now Glucowise that will supposedly ship this year).

I believe that Apple Watch has the potential to become a life changing device for many and I look forward to the day that bloodless blood sugar monitoring is a feature for the Watch.

The new rumor is that sensors like blood glucose and pulse Ox is going to be a separate device - so FDA regulations wouldn't impede the rollout of the core Apple Watch

Do you have a link to this?

I'll find it later this evening

https://9to5mac.com/2016/08/09/apple-health-and-fitness-hard...

I've had a pebble (which was chewed up by my dog), fitbit (literally fell apart - fitbits have the worst quality IMO), and a microsoft band 2.

The Band 2 has most of these functions (except water proof - it's just water resistant), and while i enjoy it, i find the bulkiness and battery life (have to charge every day or every other day) tiring. I was hoping the apple watch would focus more on battery than adding new features like GPS, so if a Band 3 isn't released with a better battery i'll probably revert to a new pebble.

Fitbit Charge HR and previous had manufacturing quality issues. Blaze and Alta are "benefiting from lower warranty costs due to their inherent design and the improved manufacturing processes we have implemented this year. We expect this trend to also apply to other new products we will be introducing heading into the holidays"

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3995113-fitbits-fit-ceo-jame...

Any word on battery life?

a watch that needs a battery? yawn.

E: I expected downvotes, but I'm actually kind of serious. It shouldn't be impossible to get a small but interesting amount of tech incorporated into an automatic watch.

well my wind-up watch is rusty these days

Solar powered Casio watches are great. They still have a battery though.

Well, automatics are great!

I didn't down vote you but this comment is like someone complaining that their iPhone only gets 36 hours battery life when their Nokia 3210 got them through a couple of weeks. I'm not sure if you've used an Apple Watch but battery life just isn't a concern at all. You take it off at night, put it on the magnetic charger next to your bed and put it back on in the morning. Unless you want sleep tracking there's no need to wear it at night and the battery easily gets through an entire day with 20-30% charge left. In other words there's a reason they didn't seem to even mention battery in this keynote - people have found it's not really an issue. Of course there are extreme use cases where it is (what if I go camping for a few days) but these hold true for an electronic device.

I hear you, and I can see how some people will enjoy owning Apple or Android watches.

But I'd still be more interested in news of a self winding watch that could somehow also deliver 30mA at 3.3V every 5-10 minutes to power a GPS module and a bit of NVRAM, even if it's in the $3-8K price range.

It really is an issue for me when it comes to anything fitness-related. Recording exercises drains it fast, and I am willing to bet that the GPS is the same story as heart rate -- it will probably sample every 5 minutes or so when you're not exercising and then bump up the frequency when you are. Which means it still can't be used to capture anything over a couple hours.

They added features, so even though the battery probably has more capacity, or the CPU is more efficient, I expect the extra power those features demand will offset any improvements in that area.

Nothing official, but my guess is that it's relatively unchanged: charge it every night.

This is the only reason why I haven't bought one. I don't want yet another device I have to charge daily or every other day.

Give me an iWatch with a battery that lasts a week or longer and I'm sold.

It really isn't a problem unless you are someone who sleeps with their watch on.

Exactly the same: 18 hrs on both.

source (scroll to the bottom): http://www.apple.com/watch/compare/

I do wonder what the plan is for the big spenders with the gold phones?

3rd paragraph FTA:

> As for the really expensive Apple Watch Edition, it seems like Apple is killing the product. The company probably wanted a flagship model to show that it was serious about fashion. But now that the Galeries Lafayette, Colette and Hermès sell the Apple Watch, Apple can focus on mass-market watches.

I just gotta wonder what the reaction of all the celebs will be, as Apple tends to listen and covet them. I was expecting a special upgrade given the cost. I guess its another Mac anniversary edition.

How many units of Apple Watch Edition could have been sold -- I'd imagine it must be less than 10,000? Upgrading that amount of watches to the new motherboard (with the improved SOC) which fits in the same case doesn't seem like a major operation.

IIRC, those watches were sold with a private consultation at an Apple Store... So Apple could be privately inviting those buyers to get their watches upgraded, and it would give Apple an opportunity to connect with these high-spenders again and sell them some more stuff.

Probably less than 1,000. I expect quite a few were given away.

For the people who bought them, the price was likely pocket money to them, so they'll shrug and move on.

I'm surprised there was no effort to make the design sleeker. Visually Watch is a bit of a clunker, and not quite in keeping with the usual Apple aesthetic.

Donate them to a design museum. You get a tax write-off, and you can buy the new $1000 version.

That's what I think, too.

I'd imagine that, if price were at all a factor, you didn't buy an Edition.

https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-edition/

Looks like they just switched to ceramic material and adjusted the price accordingly, $1250 or $1300 depending on the case size.

The only feature I was waiting for is still missing: SIM card.

I hope it's really much faster. I use 2FA often, but found that the time it took to process and give me a code was longer than the time it would take to unlock my phone and generate the code there.

I'll buy one when it's solar powered like my current watch.

Mark my words : Won't sell more than the first one.

Still same unusable battery.

By "swim up to 50 meters" does this mean you can only do a single lap of a swimming pool, or is this a measure of diving depth?

Diving depth, below that the pressure will force the water into the watch.

Diving depth - ish.

That 50m is static pressure. Don't expect to actually dive to 50m and have your Apple Watch survive.

The reality of "50m waterproof" is that if you swim with it (pools, maybe a few meters below the surface), most of the time it'll be OK.

I've read that the depth thing is also double edged, in that some device aren't sealed enough at 0m and benefit from having a bit of pressure around to tighten things. So a 50m certified thing can leak in if washed under your bathroom tap.

ps: I'm really dubious about the post swim clean idea, I hope they took minerals and chemical floating (chlorine and whatnot) in their simulation, otherwise that speaker membrane will come with free sound effects over time.

>So a 50m certified thing can leak in if washed under your bathroom tap.

Perhaps for a very cheap watch, but if you're a diver you're not using a cheap 50m watch anyhow.

It's a measure of depth. (Source: I watched the live streaming.)

Should probably be "down to 50 meters" then.

Probably but I'm shocked that's something anyone would actually need that level of clarification on.

It's such an incorrect way to state the specification that I had to ask.

I get that it's stated wrong I'm just trying to work out how water resistant for a 50m distance swim would work :) That would be the most useless feature addition ever, especially considering how long they spent pushing it during the keynote.

It's clearly a combination of GPS and accelerometer. When it detects you've gone 50m, the waterproof seal opens up and allows the water in, frying the delicate electronics. :)

Love the Freudian slip: "You’ll be able to swipe on Pokéstops, see nearby Pokémon in a watch complication"

What's Freudian about that? Am I missing it?

A "complication" is anything on the face of the watch that doesn't directly relate to displaying the time.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/135377-watch-complications-w...

Whoa, never heard "complication" used like that before. New words. Neat.

Complication is the actual technical term for Apple Watch home screen widgets. It was adopted from the term in mechanical watches, where it refers to the little windows of information (date, day of week, phase of moon) other than the hour and minute.

Just got the Gear S2. Apple needs to switch to OLED and add Always-On display before I go back. Twisting my wrist several times just to see the time was extremely annoying.

The Apple Watch does use OLED.

Well, no wonder why battery life isn't significantly better on the s2! I just love that feature.

Wouldn't you need to twist your wrist to see the screen even if the screen was always on?

My experience is that it's sometimes twist (doesn't work), relax, twist again (still doesn't work), relax, twist again (still doesn't work), give up, tap the face.

Not always, but often enough to be a mild annoyance.

Apple vs Pebble

Battery: 1 day vs 9 days

Price: $365 vs $169

Android Support: No vs Yes

https://www.pebble.com/

Edit: Original comment below for nicky0

Charge my watch every night? No thank you, I'm buying a Pebble.

Pay $365 for a watch? No thank you, I'm buying a Pebble for $169.

Android support? Don't think so, I'm buying a Pebble.

https://www.pebble.com/

Enjoy your pebble, dude.

Edit: You just completely edited your comment. The old one was more amusing.

I actually already have one, and I enjoy it.

I suspected as much :) They look cool.

I'm a Garmin guy.

But in seriousness, that's hardly a comprehensive feature comparison.

What's the feature list that matters for you?

For me personally, the addition of GPS to the new Apple watch has got me interested. And the swim tracking mode looks good.

However I'm still happy with my Garmin Fenix 3 HR.

I have a Pebble Time Round and I have to charge mine every day. It's not an issue, as it charges in about half an hour.

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