Ask HN: Office merge. They have a pet policy. I'm scared of dogs. What can I do? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Office merge. They have a pet policy. I'm scared of dogs. What can I do?

31 pointsthrowawaydog66 comments

My employer will soon be merging two of its offices into a new site. The new space is open plan (desks, not cubicles) and will hold about 100 people. The other place has a 'bring your dog to work' policy, but I'm quite uncomfortable having dogs running around me.

Personally (and the opinion of others in my office) is that the idea that you'd bring your pets to work is rediculous, but from a quick browse of the Internet it seems to have mixed opinions.

Am I right to bring it up that the dog should go, or should I try not to make waves?

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I like dogs but I wouldn't want to work in an office with dogs running around. I would definitely ask for a dog free zone (at the very least) if it were me. You're definitely not wrong to be weirded out by it. Working outside on a farm with dogs is one thing, but offices are no place for animals that might have energy to burn by running around (imo).

That being said, definitely consider meeting some nice dogs to convince yourself that they're not so scary. If you're feeling ambitious, go to a dog park and ask people if it's okay to pet their dog. Hold out the back of your hand to let it sniff you before you pet it, and move toward it slowly to gauge it's level of comfort. These little fears are worth taking the time to overcome.

I'm all for freedoms until they infringe on the freedoms of others. You shouldn't have to go to work in a place where you don't feel comfortable. Raise the issue. Any responsible and reasonable employer would either nix the policy or find a way to accommodate your situation in some way.

Having a phobia is by definition not reasonable.

That's true, but accommodating a phobia very well could be. It's not like OP has a phobia of keyboards.

I personally would draw the line at compelling other people's behavior, assuming it was not intentionally antagonistic.

I disagree. I think there are examples of compelling other people's behavior that can be reasonable accommodations. Providing a dog-free space (not necessarily the entire workplace) is reasonable. On the other hand, completely eliminating dogs from the company policy for one employee would not be reasonable.

Dislike of dogs is also partly cultural.

I'm uncomfortable around (and supremely irritated by) human babies, but it's pretty common to let people bring their awful babies into an office. Those babies don't work here, and they have no business being here, but I guess human parents feel they have some legitimate reason to bring them to work. In a fair world, I don't see how dogs are any different.

They bring them to work, set them in a bouncer, and then proceed to work the entire day while the baby is there?

The most I've ever seen is a few minutes of someone bring in their child to show some co-workers before after heading out to lunch or home.

If someone is bringing their baby in while they are working for the whole day, I think it would be reasonable to ask them to find child care options.

Yes, I've only seen the same. Having children at the office for a work day isn't sensible. Except when it's actually provided for:

At a large company I was interviewing at they showed us an open-floor office for employees whose babysitter was missing on that day (or a sick spouse or whatever).

The employees could just grab their laptop, and take a desk in that office for a day.

In front of all the desks was a glass wall. Behind it a kindergarten, so that the parents could see their child and the children were occupied.

I'll give you the same advice I gave the OP. Raise the issue. Any reasonable company would provide you with a suitable resolution.

It's almost as if the rules for humans were different than those for dogs.

And yet open office plans are rampant despite ample evidence that they infringe on the freedoms of others (to get their work done). Seems like a much more reasonable thing to accommodate, no? Still, at many places, places of professional aspiration even, it is not. Hmmm.

Good thing he's not a racist...

Usually most people bringing in dogs are very considerate and the dogs are usually very well behaved (certainly won't bite you). I would talk to HR, it's possible that they may have some way of helping you deal with it, possibly a section of the space where dogs aren't allowed.

We have a dog policy at my work but you have to house the pet in a specified meeting room and only move it when in transit to walk the dog or leave. That also means that there's generally a limit of one dog at a time.

We also had someone who loved dogs but was deathly allergic.

Like everyone said, talk to HR. They will figure something out.

Thanks, sounds like just bringing it up would be fine (and hopefully doesn't end up labling me a dog hater!).

The whole pets policy seems crazy to me, what's to stop me bringing my SO to work because I enjoy her company.

Do you think it's just convenient for the owner, or is there something behind letting people bring pets to work?

I think it's as simple as some people (like me) just enjoy having dogs around in an office. I doubt it's much more convenient for the owners, but I bet they like having their dogs around.

My dog has separation anxiety to the tune of trying to escape the house if I leave it for more than an hour. When people are around he generally will just lay down and sleep. It'd be mighty convenient to be able to bring him to work.

Hopefully mine is an unusual case though.

If you have a dog that you care about, you will want to go home from time to time to check up on the well-being of the dog. However, if the pet is in the office, then 10-hour, 12-hour or longer days stop being an issue. You can just walk over to your dog to check up on them whenever you want to.

You should work on understanding others if you expect to be understood by them! Calling the policy "crazy" won't help advance discussion.

Having worked two places where this was possible, there's a number of advantages.

Everyone in the office became a fan of the mutt, and I had lots of volunteers for lunchtime walks! Including the lady who was wary of German Shepherds at the start, who ended up curing her phobia "Oh it's only him, he's harmless".

He'd sleep near the desk until someone came over to talk to him, and as a result I wasn't clock watching quite so much (must go, dog needs out). A few heads would sometimes turn when he was having a drink (not so quiet). If I was away from desk he'd just go and settle near one of his other friends.

I felt much better towards both employers as a result.

A lot is going to depend on how well trained they are - lots of barking and running around will drive everyone crazy. Me included.

I work in an office with a dog. I detest it, the dog distracts me constantly with barking and such. I genuinely believe that the dog has a negative financial effect on the company - I'd be much more productive without it, and productivity is $$$. However, I would never say anything, as this could lead to me being ostracized as a non-"team-player".

Something to keep in mind when all feedback on an element workplace environment is positive.

see my other comment -- i don't think anyone should be subjected to this, for any reason.

but, as long as you're stuck in the situation, have you ever considered trying to train the dog, since the owner obviously hasn't? it only takes about 15 minutes a day. check out youtube.

I'm very easily distracted - lifelong ADD. If he'd barked he'd have stayed at home. Apart from the distraction it'd reflect on me the owner. It's pretty easy to train most breeds to stay quiet, though some of the small terrier types seem hardwired to bark. I'm not a fan of constantly yapping things.

Obviously I can't know if anyone was quietly against, but the woman who said she was wary because of breed was a quick convert. If she hadn't been he'd have stayed home and spend the day on the sofa - as he had in my previous job.

Dog owning programmer here. Our dog is a rescue and very anxious when left alone. We go to unreasonable lengths to limit his anxiety.

As an example, we just moved from Vancouver BC to Oslo. There are no direct flights between these two cities. To minimize the shock to our dog, we flew in to Amsterdam and spent two days on the train to get to Oslo. We both whole-heartedly felt it was the right decision every minute of the long journey because neither of us want to see him as distraught as he was that day.

We rescued him within 30 days of me going out on my own to freelance in 2011. Despite many concerted efforts of curbing his separation anxiety, he can't go 30 seconds alone without howling his sadness. Given that, every career decision I've made since has gone through the lens of 'What about Charlie?' I understood what I was in for when we got him, and it has certainly introduced limitations to the work I'm able to pursue, but we wouldn't go back on that initial decision.

I've had long running contracts where he was welcome on site. This was the difference between me being able to take the work and me turning it down.

In my biased opinion, quiet and well behaved dogs can co-exist in a productive office. If a pro-dog policy facilitates talent acquisition, in-person communication, and doesn't disrupt anybody - it's a net positive. If the dog is a misbehaving little brat, that's a different story.

I had a job where it was okay to bring your dog in - my dog was well-behaved, more quiet and lazy than anything. She'd just sit under my desk the whole day, just like she would if we were at home. She'd get up and wander around if I went to use the bathroom or to the kitchen, and being 130lbs she would startle people.

On the other hand, a co-worker would bring her dog in and the thing would non-stop run around the office, sliding into things, barking incessantly, knocking over and digging through trash cans...

At one office, the owner would visit and bring his old dog, which was deaf as a post and supremely uninterested in people. The dog would do the rounds of the office, and almost everyone would put their hands out to pat him... which the dog would ignore on his way to check out the employee's trash bin. Move on to the next bin to look for anything interesting, completely ignoring the friendly humans :)

What if you were allergic to pets? The employer has to find a solution to please both groups. Maybe you get a corner office.

And hope that people want you around the office more than the dogs.

If you dislike dogs that strongly, claim to have an allergy and politely ask the owners to keep them away from your desk. If that doesn't work, explain your allergies to management. It'll spark less resentment than the truth.

So I am going to try to answer your question. I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to bring up, in a "Hi I understand that the other office allows dog owners to bring their pets in. I'm really uncomfortable around dogs, you might say I have a phobia. Could we discuss whether to continue that policy, or if that decision has already been made, would it be reasonable to ask that the dogs be kept to a specific part of the office?

Why not challenge your fears instead? I used to have a terrible fear of heights. Then I've got a really interesting job offer, but the office was on a high floor with really huge windows. For me that was a total horror, but I've got really pissed on myself for being so weak and in the moment of craziness I've took the job anyway. And the first few days were a real struggle to stay functional, I would use any excuse to go into the corridor just to come down a bit. But very quickly I just stopped paying attention. You just get used to it and you relax and all of the sudden the fear is gone. So I started pushing myself more and eventually I've now got to the point that I'm totally ok with heights, no discomfort anymore at all (I even did some paragliding lessons recently). That's the only way to overcome the phobias, to challenge them. And it really works, just take your time and do it step by step, on your own pace.

Don't know the reason for OP's dislike of dogs, but in some countries there are stray dogs running around, and they will attack people sometimes, especially children.

It happened to my cousin. His mom (my aunt) mentions that he started stuttering after that. And he is still very much afraid of dogs. People back there undertand that fear.

Here in US, it is more "Oh, don't be afraid of Fluffy, he's fine, just pet him". Telling them someone is afraid of them is just inviting ridicule. A co-worker I knew was just telling people he is alergic. He was from India, and figured we Americans understand alergies pretty well, so he said that explanation worked better than explaining his phobia.

Get proper documentation of the phobia from an appropriately licensed medical practitioner. a) It'll be a good first step towards resolution of the phobia itself, and b) you'll probably need it for making your case in the office.

We have a pet policy at work. One dog at a time, it can't be a large dog, must be well behaved and... ... if anyone has a problem with the pet policy it may need to be canceled.

It's fun having dogs at work, but it's pretty sensible for a company to place its employees before their pets. Raise your concern - it's not unusual to be uncomfortable around animals.

If it's not a deathly fear though, I suggest trying to be open minded about it. Most of the dogs in our office pretty much sleep or stay near their owner 99% of the day. They only perk up when food is around or the UPS guy comes by ;)

My wife used to be petrified of dogs, no exageration - she would freeze up. But she didn't want to pass that on to our kids so we got a dog. She will now never live without two dogs.

You don't know it yet, but dogs are, with almost no exceptions, wonderful, loving beings. All they want to do is be part of your pack and make you happy, and get love back.

This sounds like a great opportunity for you. Pick one dog. Learn it's name. Say hi to it. Pet it. It won't take long if you get to see it regularly. You be forever grateful you did.

Why not try to learn to like dogs?

In the past, I have generally disliked pets. However, my wife really wants a dog. So over the years I've grown to dislike them less and less, to the point where they now generally make me smile.

They might make you uncomfortable now, but it doesn't have to be that way if you try.

(Oh, and by the way, I'm incredibly allergic to dogs and cats. But I get around this by washing my hands after touching them. I've also been told that there are shots you can get that will cure pet allergies such as these.)

I've found that generally my managers are pretty approachable and I've never had any fears of expressing concerns I have with them during my bi-weekly or monthly 1:1 sessions.

If you're not having 1:1 sessions with your manager, you should be. It's a great way to nip issues in the bud before they become unmanageable.

The thing I think everyone is missing is that it isn't their employer who has the policy. It is the other business in the same office space. I would still talk to HR about it, but it might not be up to that employer if dogs are allowed or not (except to find another office space).

1) Tell your employer about the problem. But don't accept any 'outs' from confronting your fear. Present it as an opportunity to overcome this phobia.

2) Get this book, or one like it (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0195311353/) CBT is a powerful way to rewire your brain, so "dog = fear" will be a thing of the past in a few weeks of practice.

There probably isn't a safer place to practice exposures since people don't bring unfriendly dogs to work, and you can see the dogs interact with people before you practice exposure and pick ones that are smaller/friendlier/calmer/safer-feeling to start with.

If you don't want to work around dogs, your employer should accommodate that. But it's also worth considering that it sounds like you have a phobia, and phobias are a curable condition. It would help you going forward if you weren't afraid of dogs. If getting bitten by a dog in the workplace was a significant risk, your employer's insurance would not allow them to put dogs in the workplace. A psychologist could help you with this issue, if you want help.

It can be that the person doesn't like dogs because it's kind of gross. Smell your hand after petting one. I like dogs though.

You have a very low threshold for what is considered gross. That's just the tip of the iceberg with pets! (and babies)

Neither of those noisy (distracting) things belong in an office, though. Offices are a place for focus.

Haven't had an office dog, but shop dogs are usually wonderful- sweet, quiet, unobtrusive, and pleasant to have around.

Not all dogs are like that, of course

What's wrong with bringing a baby to the office?

Babies sometimes cry loudly.

I used to think that too. Until I got my own.

While there are breed variations and some seem to have a skin that's oilier than most, actual bad smell is a sign that something is wrong. As in humans, it is usually due to poor hygiene, with poor oral health being the biggest culprit (dogs use the mouth to scratch, remove things from fur, lick themselves, etc).

Skin conditions are rather common, some can smell really bad. Even if it is something as benign as whatever the dog acne equivalent is.

Localized smell usually means the dog found something interesting, to his sense of smell, and rubbed itself on it.

Of course, some owners are just too lazy to bathe their dogs, even once a month.

i like all sorts of dogs, i have a rescue dog, i'm a dog person. big, small, pure, mutt, rescue, whatever. i love them all.

but there's absolutely no way i would suggest, or insinuate, that someone with a fear of dogs (phobia or otherwise), get "help", or even have to worry about the remote possibility of dealing with dogs in any office environment that doesn't have "veterinarian" in the description.

it's just straight up ridiculous. i'm highly allergic to cats, even though i like them in general. if i had to deal with cats in an office i'd quit on the spot and probably not quietly.

> but there's absolutely no way i would suggest, or insinuate, that someone with a fear of dogs (phobia or otherwise), get "help", or even have to worry about the remote possibility of dealing with dogs in any office environment that doesn't have "veterinarian" in the description.

Sure, they shouldn't be required to get help in order to keep their job. That would be ridiculous.

However, addressing the phobia would really be helpful. Better yet, learning how to handle dogs is a useful skill to have, even more so if you don't like them.

Now, can anyone give me tips on handling cats? I can't read their body language and I always feel I'm going to get scratched suddenly.

Let the cat approach you. Avoid the belly. Stick to the head & ears for wary cats. Offer your crooked finger/knuckle for them to rub their cheek on or smell.

Cats and dogs have virtually opposite body language. Cats greet by going face to face. Dogs, uh, kind of greet on the opposite end. If a cat is friendly or neutral, gradually moving your face closer to theirs is friendly body language.

Cat purrs sound to a dog like growling. Meows sound to a dog like prey.

The easiest way to not get scratched by a cat is to leave it alone. If you want cat to like you more quickly, seriously get a recording of purring on your iphone and play it. Cats like to be scratched between the ears and eyes, and like to be petted on the nape of the neck. Anywhere else, you might get scratched.

just carry some catnip in your pocket and you'll be the life of the cat-party everywhere you go.

For me, the biggest cure to (admittedly, mild) phobia was my significant other getting a dog (miniature schnauzer-like).

In my case, I big component of my fear was due to just not understanding their behavior. After living with one for almost 3 years, I've basically lost whatever fear I had. I was fine(ish!) around small dogs, but got really scared of big ones. Now I just don't care what breed or size it is, I can just read their body language.

just look at it like this: most humans are dog-autistic.

there is nothing wrong with being afraid of strange dogs, just dont pet them or interact with them, turn away from them if they approach you. make clear that you dont want to interact with them on ur workplace, ppl will understand. yeah u will look like a partypooper. whatever

How do you feel about assistance and service dogs.

Pet owners always say, "Oh, he won't hurt anyone. Isn't he cute? Down fido! Down boy! He's just excited. Can I get you something to drink?"

The trouble is that animals act differently when the owner is not around. If possible, spray apple juice on your clothing before you leave for work that day. The animal will bite you, but you won't see it again after that.

This is horrible and immoral advice.

Disagreeing, complaining, and litigating are one thing. Deliberately falsifying a situation is quite another.

This is of course leaving aside the fact that the course of action you suggest could easily lead to a life being taken.

It is impossible for me to courteously describe how appalled I am at your advice.

Sigh ... it is humor.

Maybe an attempt at it.

This seems like pretty bad advice, considering my issue with dogs is feeling like I'm going to get bitten. Why would I bring that on myself on purpose.

Aggressive dogs are incredibly rare, especially if you're just ignoring them and not trying to interact.

Here's what my city looks like: http://dogswaitinginberlin.tumblr.com/

Unleashed dogs everywhere. Never heard of it being a problem.

Dog bites in Berlin. http://www.claudia-haemmerling.de/2012/hundebisse-2012.pdf

700 people in a city of 3.5m feels like a tiny number. Although I don't know how badly these people were bitten. (Or if this list include attacks without bites).

Yup, thats awful advice.

The best advice for the work place is certainly to talk to HR/your manager, but in a more general way it might help you to be able to read basic dog body language. The most basic is to simply look at the tail. If a dog is wagging it's tail it is most likely happy and is a strong signal it won't attack. Conversely if it's hackles are up, if any hair on it's back is pointing up or raised then it might be concerned and should be avoided.

Only dogs with serious problems would react without giving some sort of sign that they are upset and most will avoid confrontation unless they feel like they are defending territory or resources.

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