The Sloppy Battle for the Future of Craft Rye | Hacker News Reader

The Sloppy Battle for the Future of Craft Rye

bloomberg.com

28 pointsdanso12 comments

I actually work in this industry[0], with a few of the major brands, and... it's 80% marketing.

Unlike beer, where smaller is often "better" (as in more flavorful, more innovative, more unique, more interesting - but definitely not more consistent);

Most of the new "distilleries" are actually non-distilling bottlers - simply taking (and sometimes ageing) distilled spirits from MGP[2] (the former Seagram Distillery).

Consider - how can a ~5 year old brand have bottled and distributed 15 year old or 25 year old spirits?

This is a real problem in the industry, as 1) it's false marketing, and 2) the equipment needed to make great spirits is not nearly as affordable, and is much more a function of scale, then it is in other industries. So the craft distillery with the 12 foot still and 5 plates really can't compete with the large distillery with a 35 foot still and 15 plates (that's the level of control they have over their process and thus their flavor profile).

And thus, with these "fake" craft spirits - it's the consumers (you and I) that get screwed - we pay extra for a fake premium brand available for much less - the identical spirit, on the same shelf, with the same flavor profile, just under a different name.

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and in case anyone is interested: my company helps real distilleries, breweries, and coffee / chocolate makers, optimize their flavor profiles and consistency through predictive manufacturing[1]. Feel free to reach out![3]

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[0] www.Gastrograph.com

[1] off by one error

[2] http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-...

[3] jasonceo [at] gastrograph [dot] com

Then you have brands like High West, that are doing some interesting things (for instance their "Double Rye" is a blend of a young LDI-sourced rye and a 16 year old Barton sourced rye - also note that they are very open and forthcoming about what they source and from where).

High West is very hit-or-miss --- I actually don't like most of what they sell --- but I think they're pretty honest. Midwinter is probably in my top 5 American whiskies. (If you know something in the same style that's better, please correct me).

It's unfortunate that with US whiskey, you really need to know brands. You can tell people how to shop for Scotch with just descriptions --- you like smoke you buy an Islay single malt, you like character you buy something that says "first fill sherry cask". The US market is trickier.

And even more unfortunately, the most important advice you can give someone shopping for US whiskey is: ignore entirely the concept of "craft" whiskey. The very best US stuff isn't "craft".

Don't leave us hanging then! Top 5 American whiskies list, please?

I haven't really thought hard about it, but Four Roses and Very Old Barton are probably on it too.

I haven't tried Very Old Barton... but I will.

Based on your comments here, we may like some of the same whiskies. I'll add a few to the list:

Four Roses Small Batch 90

Blantons 93

Four Roses Single Barrel 100

If I'm making a large batch cocktail.. I go for Old Overholt. Hard to beat for the price.

There's a vaguely analogous problem with "craft" beer in the US.

Local brewpubs sell beer that is pretty good. The slightly larger breweries blow them out of the water when it comes to consistency and actually delivering a style.

I (usually) really like several of the beers that a local place brews. Bells or New Belgium are far more reliable.

Bells and New Belgium are commonly referred to as "craft" despite their volume. The stuff that definitely isn't craft is AB Inbev, Miller-Coors, and imported mass-produced beer.

Interesting business story. Key quote for me: “If potential investors had known Bhakta planned to maintain control of the company in his family in perpetuity,” Faessen and Evison state in their filing, “they either would not have invested in WhistlePig at the same price and on the same terms or would have declined to invest at all.”

Unrelated, but when did Bloomberg Businessweek decide to start aping Vice? With lines like: "you’re likely to see him smirking, with a boarding school-worthy forelock of hair and bow tie that combine to frame a perfect strike zone for your fist" and "some special editions trade for as much as $1,000 among collectors/assholes"

> when did Bloomberg Businessweek decide to start aping Vice?

Probably shortly after they realized it brings in eyeballs.

Such valuation runs counter to the beverage’s history. Unlike single-malt scotches and other liquors, rye has been decidedly anti-aspirational—its most common mixers were failure, disappointment, and regret. But the cyclical nature of the Next Cool Thing to Order at a Bar has put rye in the spotlight (it was a favorite of Don Draper), and WhistlePig is the fanciest you can buy."

I mean I don't even know where to start.

I guess I'd start by pointing out that one of the most highly-regarded whiskies in the world, and one of the hardest to get, is the Buffalo Trace antique series Thomas Handy Sazerac rye. And Thomas Handy isn't the only "fancy" rye you can get; besides (obviously) Saz 18, the other Buffalo antique rye, there's also Booker's Limited Edition.

Unlike WP, which is NDP Veblen whiskey, all of those bottles are hard to get because they are legitimately outstanding and coveted not just by assholes (who do abound in whiskeyland) but also by people who are serious about the spirit. They're also traceable (unlike WP and unlike Pappy or Black Maple Hill or any of a number of other high-priced NDP whiskies) and they're gimmick-free.

Don't want to spend $300 on a bottle? Buy Anchor's Old Potrero, which is a single malt rye from San Francisco of unassailable quality and lineage. Or buy Few, down the street from me in Chicago; it costs half as much as Old Potrero, is 70% rye, and is one of the best new spirits on the market --- produced entirely in house, by a tiny operation.

I also call total horseshit on the idea that there's real merit in Beam's rye mashbill being 100% rye. Handy is closer to 50% than 100%, and zero is the number of reasonable people who would take a dram of WhistlePig over half a dram of Handy.

"Double barrel". "Any longer and it tastes like sticks". Jiminy. Tell that to the Scots. Woodford Reserve --- another brand you should trust more than WhistlePig any day of the week --- does an experiment edition where they'll sell you the same rye spirit aged in two different barrels, one new oak and one old oak. You get the point just by looking at the two bottles: the old-oak aged whiskey is light and the new oak is dark. Aging in ex-whiskey barrels extracts very little additional flavor, because the first round of aging strips it out. But the bottle aged in new oak is mahogany brown and full of flavor, because there's still flavor there to extract. Switching the whiskey to a new oak barrel halfway through the aging would increase the "sticks" flavor. But odds are, that's not what they're actually doing, because new oak, or any barrel with real character (ask High West where to find them), is expensive.

The rye market is rife with NDP brands marketing other people's spirit as "craft" and somehow unique. Templeton does it do, and their uniqueness is a fucking chemical flavor additive. It's all factory whiskey. That's fine! Factories make some of the best whiskey there is. But don't pay a premium for a bullshit marketing story. And don't ever pay extra for WhistlePig.

This was a great read about the supply side, despite the wince-worthy factual errors.

Another great read, from the venerable David Driscoll of K&L in San Francisco, has a lot about the demand side: http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/20...

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