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Comment by williamscales | Hacker News Reader

I find it strange that the same tipping norms exist in Canada as in the US, since, if I'm not mistaken, Canadian waitstaff are paid at least minimum wage. In the US, the fact that waiters are paid less than minimum wage and expected to make it up on tips is often cited to explain why it is so bad to not tip at all.

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> In the US, the fact that waiters are paid less than minimum wage and expected to make it up on tips is often cited to explain why it is so bad to not tip at all.

Waiters always earn minimum wage in the US regardless of what tips they get. A waiter who earns $0 in tips must still be paid minimum wage by the restaurant that employs them.

See the Fair Labor Standards Act per the United States Department of Labor: https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

By "less than minimum wage", the poster was referring to tipped wage - this is the lower, $2.13 per hour federal minimum which can be paid out to employees who make at least $30 per month in tips.

Since it is expected that tips make up the difference between the tipped minimum wage and the regular minimum wage, yes, tipped employees are actually paid less by their employers than regular minimum wage in the vast majority of cases. This is a large part of why tipping remains in practice - tips effectively subsidize the employer's payroll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_Stat...

A waiter who earns $0 in tips is likely an awful waiter and won't remain employed long. His employer does not want to have to make up the difference on a regular basis.

I'm not entirely sure if I understood your first paragraph, but it seems like you might have overlooked this quote from the page I linked:

> If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages [...] do not equal the Federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

In other words, the employer always needs to pay federal hourly minimum age. Paying a waiter less than minimum wage would be breaking the law regardless of what tips they get.

> tipped employees are actually paid less by their employers than regular minimum wage in the vast majority of cases

Edit: OK, I think I understand what you mean. I agree that because most waitstaff receive tips, the amount their employers pay can be less than minimum wage. However the amount that the waitstaff receive is always at least minimum wage.

In some parts of the US following labor laws is less prevalent than others. In many places the employer will simply ignore the law knowing they will face no consequences. Please see the south.

In BC, at least, liquor servers have a lower minimum wage than the norm, as they're "expected" to make up the difference with tips.

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. Minimum wage for tipping jobs is much less than normal, in all of the 4 provinces I've lived in (AB, SK, ON, QC).

Am I misunderstanding something? Alberta Labour lists this:

* General hourly minimum wage – $11.20 for most employees

* An hourly minimum wage of $10.70 for employees serving liquor as part of their regular job

https://work.alberta.ca/employment-standards/minimum-wage.ht...

> In the US, the fact that waiters are paid less than minimum wage and expected to make it up on tips is often cited to explain why it is so bad to not tip at all.

Where in the world did you hear that?

Can't speak for the OP but: everywhere?

The federal minimum wage for a food server in the US is $2.13/hr. The employer only has to pay more if their tips don't average out to $7.25 an hour.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_St...

Right, so even if they don't receive any tips they get paid minimum wage. It's a bit disingenuous to suggest they make less than minimum wage if they receive no tips.

In theory this is so but in reality you will be fired if you require the employer to do this.

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