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Comment by stcredzero | Hacker News Reader

How about the idea that one should be kind and treat all people with dignity?

Sounds great, but in practice people will take advantage of you; e.g., if you walk alone in the street at night in a big city and a stranger asks to use your mobile phone, you'd have to be particularly naive to say yes.

Saying yes in that case wouldn't be required. I'd say, sorry, I can't help you, then walk on. In my case, with those sorts of requests, I often say, sorry, I have to follow a rule about that, which is true. I have a personal code of conduct that forbids my satisfying requests like that.

Sure but that illustrates my point: applying as much kindness as possible is not what people actually strive for nor would it be a solution. Preventing being taken advantage of takes priority.

Sure but that illustrates my point: applying as much kindness as possible is not what people actually strive for nor would it be a solution. Preventing being taken advantage of takes priority.

Look at my post: I only say you should treat people with kindness. You are saying some nonsense about "applying as much kindness as possible." Is it a habit you have of putting words into another's mouth. This is a Strawman, either intentional or unintentional. It's generally possible to be kind while also protecting yourself. It's only in very extreme circumstances where it's not. Calm, speaking interactions generally do not fall into this category.

I don't see such a large difference between your wording and mine; "should" implies making some kind of best effort at doing something where possible. But regardless, where we differ is that I think that people are generally neutral or indifferent instead of kind. I don't believe this can be radically changed in a way that works out, that would be Utopian thinking. I gave you a very common example where being kind is not advisable, yet you claim this happens only in very extreme circumstances. I'm curious how you arrived at such a conviction.

I don't know, how about it? Give me more to work with here.

I meant that as an addition to your list.

No, I don't think that idea, holding it or conveying it, has commensurate ability to change perspectives or raise consciousness. Not comparable to drugs/art/meditation. Not at all.

...because what other people might have to say isn't particularly important, so behaving in a way that best ensures others will be willing to share truthful opinions isn't of any particular value?

You've never had your perspective changed or consciousness raised by something someone said unexpectedly? If your answer is "no" I'd posit that that is a particularly interesting piece of data.

Now slow down there slick, I didn't say any of that.

It's a matter of what has greater impact. Drugs/art/meditation, as a rule, are a greater force for changing perspectives than ideas are. That's just how it is.

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