Hacker News Reader

Comment by Animats | Hacker News Reader

The fake wire transfer receipt is fraud. That's a criminal offense. Have a talk with the local DA. California has a large prison system, with cell space available.

I've never heard of a startup going that far.

View on HN

The article says "That afternoon in the office, Michael emailed each employee a personalized PDF receipt of a Wells Fargo wire transfer ...". The sample shown is for $12,000. The total for all employees is probably over $100,000.

If this happened in Silicon Valley, the Santa Clara County District Attorney's office has jurisdiction. They have a Major Fraud Unit. "The Major Fraud Unit is responsible for prosecuting cases involving serious and complex fraud, also known as White Collar Crime, where the loss exceeds $100,000. The Unit emphasizes theft cases that are accomplished by lying or the breach of a trusted or fiduciary relationship with the victim as opposed to the taking of property covertly, or by force or fear." Any questions?

The Santa Clara DA's office has a staff of over 500 people. This is one of the things they do. White-collar crime prosecutions often start at the DA's office, rather than coming from police agencies. The DA's office has their own investigators. There's also a process for getting restitution from convicted criminals. This routinely "pierces the corporate veil" and means the criminal is ordered to pay up as part of their punishment.

[1] https://www.sccgov.org/sites/da/prosecution/DistrictAttorney...

+1 for pursuing the criminal angle, not because it would make it right for you, or be easy, but simply because it's the right thing to do.

That was 17 real crimes committed. Our society is better off when we collectively do our part to make sure that criminals like that face the justice system.

Apparently, the company posted on their facebook that they are taking legal action against OP as: "a disgruntled former employee who has launched a slanderous campaign against WrkRiot and some of its employees via social media". https://www.facebook.com/WrkRiot/

They just took down the facebook page

edit: its back up

Haha wow here is what they wrote before they took it down http://imgur.com/a/Tf5bM

They should have consulted their lawyer before making that "press release," as they call it. Perhaps she could have explained to them the difference between libel and slander.

Thank you!

This is probably just Tess on her own thinking she's being proactive and in charge of corporate image.

Someone should tell her that accusing someone of extortion without proof is likewise libelous.

Tess, i don't remember that character in the saga? Or do you mean Jess, as in Jessica?

Yes, the name to which I've referred is the pseudonym Jessica though her real name is not a matter of record, though powers-that-be consider discussion of her on this forum now to be a witch hunt and off-topic.

That is correct. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12395442.

now, they hire someone to delete comments in facebook !

While $50K sounds like a lot of money, it actually sounds reasonable for 3 months severance + back pay + her "signing bonus" (relocation).

So... they are admitting they fired her for cause - which, given the cause, is illegal under CA law?

Yeah, some real geniuses at work here. No wonder they took it down.

Now the page is down again. (NOTE: I wanted to see if they had posted anything else in their defence in interest of hearing both sides to the story.)

Ignoring whether they were in the right or wrong, they're certainly not handling this very well as a company. If they now re-brand themselves again that would not be a great move if they maintain any link to their former selves. As a start-up I'm sure getting investor finance after a media fiasco like this may be particularly difficult, regardless of a name change.

why would a company ever post anything like that on their FB page?

Inexperience leads to ignorance (in the classic meaning of the word). The CMO discussed in the story is 23.

Did you not see what else these guys have said?

Posting on FB is the least of their mistakes at this point..

Although there's still time to f* up even worse!

> The fake wire transfer receipt is fraud. That's a criminal offense.

True. Of course, in CA, not having posted paydays or not paying on the posted paydays is also a criminal offense.

> California has a large prison system, with cell space available.

Well, given that it only just cleared below the threshold set in the long case over unconstitutional overcrowding, and is still well over 125% of capacity, I don't know that I'd characterize it as having "cell space available".

If this guy is actually fighting some sort of tax fraud charge in NY (possibly a cover story, but that's a pretty bad cover story to instill trust) it might be a matter of handing over evidence to the prosecutors who are already working against him.

Completely agreed. This is beyond "bad startup" and is actually an issue not just for HN but also for the criminal justice system. The tax issues mentioned suggest a history of this kind of behavior.

I have, in the 90s bubble. Founder went to jail for securities fraud. A friend of mine never got paid for a lot of work.

Overcrowding is still a problem with California's prisons [0], to the point where inmates are getting dumped into smaller communities through realignment under AB 109 [1].

Hopefully the perps involved will get plenty of hotbunking time, though.

[0] www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_24980457/california-prison-overcrowding-governor-asks-court-more-time

[1] http://patch.com/california/gilroy/bp--ab-109-californias-fe...

-_-

I fear that they don't even know the real name of their CEO!

It's okay, the DA office would find out for them.

This was by far the biggest red flag. I'd completely forget about the wage claims and wrongful termination suit and pursue this instead.

You can only think in these morally high ways if your rent is paid for by other means. Otherwise the most important thing is getting any money.

+1 . Talk to DA. I wonder if there is any lawyer who would do pro bono

Pro bono work is usually to take someone with limited money OUT of a bad situation, for example help abused foster kids petition for being placed in a new foster home, or help an illegal immigrant from being deported with their children.. not "punish a CEO committing fraud to people earning 6 figure salaries".

On the other hand, the right government contact (police? employment? ) will be happy to go after the scammer for "free".

Now that you mention it, is it even allowed that someone outside the DAs office try criminal cases? The DA is the legal representative of the state in that case, and I don't know if someone else can just step in there.

The concept of "private prosecution" exists, but my understanding is that it's not usually practiced (anymore). Some states prohibit it completely, and of those that do allow it some judicial authority is still usually required to sign off on it before it can proceed.

You're confusing Criminal Charges which is what a DA would handle vs. Civil (suing for back pay) which some attorneys will take on a contingency (30% of payout) but not pro-bono.

Pro-Bono is usually for criminal defense for folks who can't afford a lawyer and when public defenders aren't available.

What they did was felony forgery under California law. PENAL CODE SECTION 470-483.5

One felony count (anything over $950) is 16 months minimum. I have no idea what the formula is for multiple counts.

What they did is felony forgery under California law.

I would second talking to the DA. The photoshopped Wells Fargo receipt is just too much.

You'll be doing someone downstream a huge service. Someone these guys would end up scamming otherwise.

OP would be doing a service to society by taking it to the DA.

These guys are going to end up seriously scamming some innocent party in the future.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com