What It Takes for an Independent Record Store to Survive Now | Hacker News Reader

What It Takes for an Independent Record Store to Survive Now

pitchfork.com

73 pointspmcpinto26 comments

So, I pass by Used Kids and the "High Street" they mention everyday. A little bit of back story that was hinted at here. Essentially, High Street borders Ohio State, and developers are looking to cash in and build more apartments for the growing university. Recently, about four or so blocks the near southern corner called "the Gateway" was demolished...along with a number of lower income houses...in order to build large apartments specifically geared towards students. I was assuming the end of Used Kids (and all the shops along that block) is related to this development. I am not sure if they have the same owners, but after seeing Used Kids and the other record shop (which often played music on the street...added a nice flair) I assumed this is what was happening when it was sectioned off by concrete dividers.

Minwage and rent and demand ain't the only issue, it's developers feeding a growing university which is eating that neighborhood alive. My paycheck comes from that university and I am for OSU's advancement, but I can't deny the reality of what is happening.

In case anyone's curious about the "public-private partnership" that's been working on these renovations for the last couple of decades: http://campuspartners.osu.edu/who-we-are/

Plenty that's been razed really deserved to be destroyed, but the way the good and the bad is all being replaced by the generic is pretty depressing.

I worked at a Rainbow Records in the 90's, after graduating with a useless BA degree in Business, and recovering from a nervous breakdown. Rainbow records was not nearly as big as Tower Records, but big for the Bay Area.

I saw the writing on the wall. This was slightly before Napster, and downloading. Cd's were a big deal. The business just seemed destined to close.

I look back, and it was one of my better jobs. It only paid minimum wage, but the people, and friendships I cultivated were priceless. There was one employee who gave me a bad time, but I still liked her. She would berate me, in a joking manner, but I honestly didn't care. I missed her on her days off. She used to remember holidays, and buy employees gift baskets/little gifts. I was always the last person she would give a gift to, and it was always the same verbs banter. Me, "Now I know you don't want to give me this? Her, "Well, I couldn't just leave you out?". She would walk away, with that punk rock hair, look back at me, and say, "Stop looking at my ass." Me, "Sorry, but you just have good genes--meaning I like your denim--Levis? She would laugh, and think about a come back. I really hope she's happy now-

I look back, and don't know what could have saved that store. I couldn't imagine opening any store these days, especially around here.

(I do like the idea of a nonprofit business model for used record stores, and book stores. I think there's a few nostalgic guys who might donate a store to the right group of people? I would--if I was a landlord.)

I went to Ameoba in LA 2 years ago. It had been a awhile since I was in a record store.

It seemed sooooo dated. No way to listen to the CDs to see if I want one. No way to check reviews like if I wanted to see which of 5 albums I should consider. Plus I don't even own a CD player at the moment. My laptop doesn't have one so I'd have to ask someone to rip it.

I used to love records stores and some of my favorite music is stuff I discovered at the store but it feels like snail mail to email at this point. Sure album covers and liner notes are awesome but I've been online since 2003 with Rhapsody and other stuff since and just being able to play any album and then look at the influences lists and follow those totally killed doing it at the store for me.

In Japan there are a couple of CD stores where all the CDs are open and there are 20-30 CD players for you to listen to them in. It's fun as nostalgia but even then it's not as convenient as online.

It all feels like from another era like a livery or something.

Any brick&mortar in the age of the internet cannot compete on convenience, that's inevitable; but they can compete on atmosphere, community and discovery.

Bookshops have much in common with record stores, and have disappeared at a similar rate under pressure from Amazon and ebooks. The few survivors don't fight on convenience: they stock very limited catalogue, but attract patrons with events, community-building, specialist focus and so on. In some cases, what was a bookshop with a cafe attached is now a cafe with a bookshop attached. It can work, if you concentrate on the differentiators only an offline experience can give you.

Sometimes records aren't as fungible as books, i.e., a particular record is going to have a certain rarity, condition, and (obviously) location, whereas a book is a book and it doesn't really matter which specific copy of that book it is. In this case a brick and mortar record store can sell online (such as is often done through discogs) and not really compete with other online music sales.

> it doesn't really matter which specific copy of that book it is

Heathen! Sacrilege! That is absolutely not true -- books have (or rather suffer, in most cases) revisions, cuts, changes, translations... Even something as direct as Stephen King's work can change significantly from edition to edition. And of course, books suffer the ravages of elements as much as records, which can reduce the enjoyment of illustrations, typography, notes and so on.

Really, they are the same thing. The difference is that the experience of reading a book through digital media has only recently caught up with analog (and barely) thanks to eInk, whereas music was hit earlier by MP3s. Bookshops have just not adapted to the changing landscape as much as record shops.

You're right; I was thinking the same after I posted. There certainly is a parallel. I suppose I've never given thought to whichever edition of a book I've read.

Minimum wage and rent (high in the very places we most want such stores to exist) seem to set a lower bound on performance below which such things simply can't exist today.

Perhaps if one operated as a non-profit or a co-op so people who loved this stuff could realistically volunteer and keep it going?

Yes, if there were no expenses then that would change things.

However, some factors mentioned which you omitted were, paying the network of basement pickers to find a supply, paying for new stock, and government subsidized street parking. Those also affect the lower bound.

You also left out paying for employee health insurance. Perhaps if there were single payer health care then more small companies like this could keep on going?

I'm pretty sure that only people who love music and records work at a record store already. You need a lot of volunteers to replace a full-time staff position. A lot of volunteers means more management overhead and more time spent on consensus building.

The minwage argument cuts both ways of course, in that a $19 vinyl record from the story takes awhile to pay for at $7.25/hr.

Is that an answer? Rent so high a business can't afford to pay it's staff. Are the staff not working for free to give the banks more than can be had for a given piece of land?

Meanwhile, there are two record stores almost directly across the street from each other in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle (and two more in the U District, as I recall). After reading this article--actually, I finished reading this article on the bus towards Ballard--I went over to visit them both. Happily, both had quite a few people inside and almost everyone bought at least one record.

According to The Stranger, one of those stores, Sonic Boom Records, recently sold to a longtime customer[0] and "is on solid ground having year over year record breaking sales figures at [their] Ballard location." Hopefully they continue. (Though I did take a quick glance at property records and neither store is in owned space.)

0 - http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/11/24331367/sonic-bo...

Sure, but other Sonic Boom locations are long closed, and we lost the excellent Platinum Records too. Even our timewarp land of DJs and hipsters is in no way immune to the record store downturn.

A minimum wage hike just killed the main one near UC Berkeley.

on a related note, i went into a brick and mortar shop to buy earphones the other day. turns out they wont let you try them, for various reasons. in the end, i looked on the internet for reviews, and bought some headphones on amazon instead, and they are perfect, awesome. so, the brick and mortar electronic equipment store adds what value?

To be fair, that is kind of a jerk move. They can't resell them as new, and I guess they have to either now sell them as used, or return them to the manufacturer somehow? If you want to try something on and they won't let you, but want to support them, go to Best Buy / Bic Camera or whatever you have locally.

This is basically the crux of this issue. If businesses want to be businesses instead of charities, their business model has to create some sort of win-win where they provide value that people are willing to pay money for above the cost of providing that value. Your parent comment gave an example of that not happening. One potential place the brick-and-mortar could have provided value is in the realm of trying something for yourself before buying - not having that capability seems to be the only major weakness of internet retail - but apparently that wasn't part of their business model. Now if businesses want to rely more on their patrons support to counterbalance a weak business model, they are free to do so, but it changes lots of calculations. It seems far more likely to work for independent record stores, which have opportunities to build a closer relationship with their customers, than for places like Best Buy.

Additionally - curation. I do to specialty shops because I want to have a conversation with a knowledgable salesperson about what I intend to do and what will best serve that need. Sure, many products don't need this level of personal interaction (for example, the headphone example) - but if I were, for instance, starting up an interest in white water kayaking then I would certainly want someone to talk through my goals, gear, etc.

>Additionally - curation. I do to specialty shops because I want to have a conversation with a knowledgable salesperson

This is why I'm happy to pay a premium at my local record shop. I love talking with the owner and he's always introducing me to good music. I know he prices high but I also know that it's quality, and usually the conversation makes it worthwhile.

Do you mean headphones, or in-ear phones? Many brick & mortar shops will let you try on headphones in a demo area setup for that purpose. Bose has their own demo tables they provide to some stores for the purpose of demonstrating their noise cancelling headphones, amongst other products. [That's how I got hooked - the store let me plug in my own phone into their demo unit, so I could see how they sounded on my own favorite songs.]

I don't know of anywhere that will let you try earbud headphones, for hygiene reasons.

The big electronics retailers in Tokyo let you try earbud headphones; they usually have most of their range on display with the jacks available to plug into your phone. There's alcoholic wipes to clean the buds.

I had the same thing with underpants. It's just crazy.

> so, the brick and mortar electronic equipment store adds what value?

I got my last turntable from a brick-and-mortar after doing plenty of research online. I took some records with me and could listen to them through a couple different tables on various speakers they had wired up in the shop. The guy helping me knew his product and it was overall a good experience (and he gave me a nicer open-box preamp for the same price as the more basic one I had intended to buy). I left that day with new gear I was confident I'd be happy with. If I'd bought it online I wouldn't have had the advice nor would I have heard it through several different speakers. I also wouldn't have gotten a deal on the preamp.

Sorta off topic Other Music closed/is closing? Wow, I thought its location (close to NYU in a fairly "hip" area of Manhattan) would keep it in business. I remember visiting it often in my freshman year of college when I was really into music—it was rarely empty. NYC rents may be though, but I thought they were doing fine.

I assume it's the rent. If it's in the "hip area of Manhattan", as you say, the rent is presumably astronomical. In some places rents are going up by three-digit percentages once a long-term lease is up, so the fact that it was doing well a few years ago sadly doesn't mean much.

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