Hacker News Reader

Comment by tgarma1234 | Hacker News Reader

I never got far with FreeBSD on the desktop because every time I thought I would give it a try I ended up just thinking Linux is easier to use and my Mac is already basically the same thing but pre-configured, so it's a pretty expensive hobby unless you have a lot time or just really like playing with the details of your operating system. I agree there are philosophical reasons you might prefer FreeBSD to other operating systems. Anyway, my favorite part of that blog post is this:

# Handle Unicode on removable media libiconv_load="YES" libmchain_load="YES" cd9660_iconv_load="YES" msdosfs_iconv_load="YES"

View on HN

"Linux is easier to use" heh. Well I mean Ubuntu is easy to use, sure. Until you want to change things, then it gets in your way.

Every time I try Linux, nothing makes sense to me. Why is there a weird, unfriendly `ip` command instead of `ifconfig`. Why is systemd doing the "* Waiting for some bullshit … [∞ seconds]" thing on shutdown instead of killing everything. Why does the bootloader (which is now part of the systemd project, of course) use EFI variables instead of just putting itself at /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI. Why is there so much crap exposed as mounted filesystems. Why is there no separation between the base system and user packages (/usr/local).

Modern GNU/systemd/Linux just doesn't feel right.

The whole thing with /efi/boot/bootx64.efi and EFI variables just tripped me up yesterday too. I still have no idea if I need to copy my kernel over to bootx64.efi for it to boot.

> Why is systemd doing the "* Waiting for some bullshit … [∞ seconds]" thing on shutdown instead of killing everything.

Systemd is now just killing everything if you log out or try to shut down the system, which caused a lot of people to run amok over that, too.

Because it was an awful, awful, idea, and is almost never what you want.

Well, that's why I run OpenRC. And GRUB.

ip over ifconfig doesn't bother me that much: they were both confusing and ill-documented in their Linux incarnations, IMHO. The mounted crap I think is kinda nice for system introspection, although BSD and Solaris users have been known to disagree.

As for everything in /usr/bin (and my stuff in ~/bin and /usr/local/bin), I think this was a good idea for Linux (but not the BSDs) to do: On Linux, there is no real separation between /usr/bin and /bin in any case (/usr/local/bin is another matter, but it's separate on my system. I think /sbin should have been kept separate as well, but I'm untangling that particular knot: I could do it, but it'd be a mess).

So yeah, systemd is the devil, but the rest I kinda like.

Killing everything on shutdown doesn't seem like a good idea. Programs should be able to shut down cleanly.

Your data isn't safe unless every program can handle being randomly killed. The power can always go out.

Now, once all your programs can be immediately killed, why would you ever not want to do that?

Isn't it better to neatly close up remote connections instead of leaving them hanging to time out? I'm thinking of web servers and database clients.

The kernel should close all your TCP connections properly when you die, so it should all be good. Mostly you need to autosave files every so often.

Basically, because a lot of data isn't safe and only manages to seem safe on average because the power is very reliable and data loss becomes an occasional race condition. :-)

They're sent SIGTERM via kill(1), then a short sleep, then any stragglers get SIGKILL. The idea is to clean up any non-responsive processes, or programs that intentionally ignore SIGTERM.

Note that kill(1) just sends an arbitrary signal to whatever process(es), it doesn't have to be SIGKILL.

Yeah I know how the old init systems work. I also know that the newer ones all try to keep track of which services they're starting so they can shut them down in the right order and wait until they're finished.

> unfriendly `ip` command instead of `ifconfig`

Ifconfig had been deprecated for what... over 5 years now? It's a bit different, but if you need it often, you'll either learn in a few days or can just use an ifconfig-compatible wrapper. There are projects that do that already.

The kernel moved to rtnetlink and ifconfig simply doesn't work the same way. Interface labels vs multiple IPs is just one very visible difference.

> Why does the bootloader use EFI variables

Because that's the right way to do it (for non-removable discs), and the way that you mention is the wrong way to do it.

* https://jdebp.eu./FGA/efi-boot-process.html

> Why does the bootloader (which is now part of the systemd project, of course)…

Please say you're joking. This is frightening.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8984400

You're late. (-:

Reply on news.ycombinator.com