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Comment by yazaddaruvala | Hacker News Reader

Is it violent to sell drugs/alcohol to a minor?

Does "violent" cover emotional abuse?

How would you rather deal with such crimes?

Fines, repeated violations rise up the amount and possibly barring licenses, restraining orders, rehab programs, mental health, and more. Until it is violent there should not be an authority abducting and locking up someone causing tax payer dollars to be further wasted and creating more problems.

So under your system, a person can steal without the threat of jail so long as they don't do it violently. Hard to see the downsides of such a system.

I'm not entirely convinced that it's the threat of punishment that stops criminals. Going on the criminals I know (crap evidence, I know), excluding the total psychopaths, what has stopped them is guilt for hurting people and/or wanting to be a better role model to their kids/siblings/younger kids that look up to them. All that the justice system seems to do is take away their ability to make legal income and years of their life.

For the criminals lacking empathy, I don't know of a good solution to preventing them from hurting people.

Fines? - People who steal or sell drugs, do it because they believe they can't survive any other way! Additionally, what if people cannot and do not pay fines? You have a recursive problem right? Are you gonna fine people who cannot pay a fine? Or would you like to add an amendment to your system to put people who cannot afford fines in jail?

Barring licenses? - Why do they need licenses? If they get caught, they'll just "pay" a fine right?

Restraining orders? - Why would they accommodate?

Rehab programs? - Isn't this what prison[0] is supposed to be? Or are you suggesting they can walk out at any time (including before being taken there)?

Mental health? - Isn't this just prison[0] with pills? Or are you suggesting they can walk out at any time (including before being taken there)?

Please don't misunderstand me, I respect and would love to see a better system. I'm even convinced you're on the right path. I just don't think its as easy as you seemed to state.

[0] Where prison is defined: "something that locks you up"

The alternative is locking them up and creating lifetime criminals.

We need to separate criminals and give them new communities to find worth in for the most part. Most people don't commit crimes because they want to. If you can separate them from the criminal element, find worth and independence, that is the solution.

I think putting them up with other criminals is like a crime university, it will be all they know. Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation but it creates hardened criminal elements.

Your better system is taking people and locking them up together and then charging the tax payer 30k per annum, even if they pay no fines they are still causing less budget.

There aren't any easy solutions but that is mostly wrong for non-violent and low level offenses like drug crimes.

This Norway prison has prisoners work on a farm/island as an example of a new community. [1] It has some of the lowest recidivism in the world. Sometimes people in poverty have never been treated like humans, maybe if you apply this to them then certainly a percentage would see worth. The other harsher ways are creating more re-offenders in the US system (the main problem of this article).

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/europe/norway-prison-bas...

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