The top 10 h1B employers are IT offshore outsourcing firms | Hacker News Reader

The top 10 h1B employers are IT offshore outsourcing firms

epi.org

26 pointsthe_economist22 comments

That's certainly not in the spirit of the program. I am generally not a fan of Ted Cruz but the proposal he made that there should be a minimum salary of 120k (not sure if this is right) makes sense to me. Or maybe limit the number of H-1B visas a company can get to 100 or so. Or even better: Give H-1B workers a green card after a year so they can change companies. That way they couldn't be held captive for low wages.

Then the H1B will only be used by tech companies, which is also not in the spirit of the program. If there are phenomenal marine biologist, who generally do not make 120k, they should be able to use the program.

If we allow H1B employees to switch jobs two or three times within their industry without any extra paper works or fees, then these outsourcing companies will think twice before importing engineers and chaining them to their H1Bs.

then tie it to some percentile of employee salaries for that field. (perhaps even weight it to the location)

Isn't it already that way in theory? It's just that companies ignore that requirement and nobody enforces it.

"If there are phenomenal marine biologist, who generally do not make 120k, they should be able to use the program."

Why should a employers be assisted by the government in their efforts to hire high talented people for low salaries? Even marine biologists?

Here's how I look at it - immigration to the US is limited, current levels are about 1.2 million a year. These immigrants are similar to US citizens in that they can choose and change their career paths without fear of deportation. If the phenomenal marine biologist you've described decides she'd rather be a programmer, or a dental hygienist, or drop out of the work force for a while to pursue a dream, or open a sandwich shop, she is free to do so. The employer, of course, is free to increase her salary and improve her working conditions to convince her to remain a marine biologist.

Or.. the employer could gain control over her right to reside in the US and gain an employee who faces deportation if she fails to remain a marine biologist in her employer's good graces. That'll keep her in the job at the salary and working conditions the employer has decided are fair.

Hey, if you ask the market and you don't like the answer, have the government ask again on your behalf, right?

Why only allow H1B's to switch jobs "within their industry"? Why allow employers to decide who gets to come to the US and who doesn't? Should someone who nods and agrees with an employer about test-driven development and agrees to reverse a binary tree at a whiteboard have a greater right to live and work in the US than someone who doesn't? I won't do this anymore, and the cynical part of me thinks that these coercive employer controlled visa programs are really meant to create a huge population of developers who can't stand up to their employers, not because they need a job, but because they don't want to be deported.

None of this works, in my opinion. Whatever our immigration system is, I don't think that employers controlling who gets to come here and the conditions under which they are allowed to remain works. I think it creates bad market distortions and is an affront to personal freedom.

As for the PhD's specifically, really, there is almost no justification for these low salaries, other than that people seem to be willing to accept them. If it's hard to convince young people to become marine biologists rather than dentists, because they don't like the idea of 7 year PhD programs with 50% attrition rates that result in low salaries and uncertain job security... well, sounds like a perfectly rational market response to me. If someone with the freedom to choose wants to do it, fine, but why would we want to empower employers to use the immigration system to coerce people into these jobs?

limit the number of visas per company. Proportional to the total number of us citizen or permanent resident employees.

i.e. (num_h1b_employees - 1) / num_employees < 15%

(1-1)/5 = 0%

(2-1)/10 = 10%

(15-1)/100 = 14%

(150-1)/1000 = 14.9%

There is H1B-Dependent employer classification (https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/FactSheet62/whdfs62C...) which triggers higher fees and increased fraud checks. No hard limit like you suggested though.

Thanks! They even use the same 15% which I just made up.

IMHO. A hard limit would be better since it is still and abuse of the program even if it is within the law. The spirit of the program is also about bringing diversity (national origin as well as occupation)

I thought H1B was a lottery. How come these shitty companies get buckets of them while startups struggle or don't even bother to hire one or two people on H1B? Or am I mistaken and startups hire H1Bers all the time?

The big body shops find it profitable to have lots of employees dealing with the bureaucratic overhead. Startups don't find it worthwhile to deal with all of that.

So it's not a lottery then.

As a european, i felt that the article is describing the slavery. It is slavery. Maybe europe is struggling with recession and crisis some parts, but at least they neber stopped giving people what they deserve.

If you are European you can get off the H1B and on to an EB3 or EB2 track for a green card rather quickly. Individuals born in India, China or the Philippines have long wait times and need to stay on H1B for years.

I would not say it is slavery, my friends who are in US on H1B are very happy. They get to live in the US and save money.

If you think, having to leave the country where you live just because you raised your voice about your complaints in your company is not slavery, I want to tell to you that there is another world where individuals have more rights amigo.

My friend, you are being too pedantic. If the H1B employee is not happy with employer, the employee can switch to a new job in the US. The new employer has to apply for H1B transfer, involves a bit of paperwork but its not limited to the visa cap.

It's not that easy. Once the Green Card process has started an employer switch is difficult and can reset the waiting period. That way a lot of Indians I know are tied to their outsourcing companies for five years or more.

That is a good point. Once you apply for the green card then yes you are tied to your employer.

I am working in Germany with a visa type which is green card equivalent of green card. As a principle changing employer is allowed. Now I am changing job but with another title but on my permit it say i can only work as software engineer. I just sent an e-mail to foreigner's office to just to get information and suddenly they gave me an appointment to solve the problem, they will just modify my permit. They are encouraging you to change employers and vitalise the economy. And foreigners are welcomed here because they have talent, not because they are cheaper. We are treated same as German citizens. Comparing to the US policy, it is 3 times better i think.

The German policy sounds better based on what you have said but the reality is most foreigners (Indians and others) want to go to US not Germany. The US knows it so it can come up with any rules it wants and people will still choose US over other countries.

Couple of my friends had the opportunity to go to Europe via their Indian Outsourcing company but they cajoled/begged to be sent to the US.

The only disadvantage of europe could be that the wages are lower but it is normal. In europe they don't give your salary and leave you alone. You don't need thousands to live better life because there is social state. Health is free, education is free, you get money for every child yoi have. A lot of social benefits that removes the need of US level salaries. Maybe people from outside just compare the numbers and say ok in the us they pay more let me go there, but the reality is different. IMHO in europe you have a safer future even you see less in your bank statement.

Those are all good points but there is one more important point, language. Almost all European countries have their own languages, you cannot fully integrate unless you know the language of the country.

Integrating into US is easier since most skilled immigrants are good with English. Personally speaking language was was one of the important criteria when I made the decision to move to Australia from India.

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