Loneliness Is a Warning Sign to Be Social
nautil.us
nautil.us
It used to be, when I was a lot younger, that I would be pretty indiscriminate: as long as someone wanted to spend time with me, and they were nice enough, and we could find something to do together that we enjoyed, like watching a movie, playing a game, or just hang out and talk about something (usually meaningless), that would be enough.
But as I got older, I started to see that as a waste of time, and started to notice how little I had in common with the people I spent time with, and how rarely we talked about or did anything that was really meaningful for me, and it started to bother me.
So, over the years I've lost touch with most of my old friends.. and, as I'm not very social, and I'm usually quite content with my own companionship, I really haven't gone to the great trouble of finding new friends, especially now as my standards have gotten so much higher.
The result? I've pretty much no friends left. Occasionally, someone at work reaches out to me, but, really, I recognize that we have little in common, and I usually don't respond in kind. So I'm pretty much alone, and probably will remain so for the rest of my life. Usually I'm ok with that, but sometimes I notice some couples or groups of friends around me, having fun, laughing together, and it bothers me. But not enough for me to make a big change in my life.
I'm married and my wife has gone through a similar transformation. We're also fairly introverted, in the sense that social situations leave us feeling tired afterwards. The funny thing is that time together is like being alone: it isn't exhausting.
Many times I catch myself thinking about contacting some of my old friends or some people I got to know the latter years, to do something more than the usual stuff I get to do with my girlfriend, but I don't.
I haven't figured out if I'm the picky b@st@srd or my "friends" and people I know are the issue.
It's a bit like having your life's savings only in stocks of your employer.
For me, being in the same situation, my partner is often more company than I need or want. And I only see them on weekends.
What do you mean by this, specifically? I've wrestled with the idea of finding people I have more "in common with," but I've ended up at a place where I think the idea of "best friends" is kind of an overblown myth, or at least it's a LOT rarer than people think it is. What's the fun in hanging out with someone who's the same as you, anyway?
I'm come to realize that, while I tend to think I'm losing touch with old friends because "we don't have a lot in common anymore," it's far more often just because one or both of us is being a shitty friend and the relationship isn't giving enough satisfaction in return to continue investing in maintaining it for one or both parties.
>how rarely we talked about or did anything that was really meaningful for me
But really, if you always did "meaningful" things and always had "meaningful" conversations with your friends, then nothing would actually stand out as "meaningful." Maybe there are other reasons to converse and hang out with people than finding deep meaning in everything. Most people seeking out that deeper "meaning" tend to have to find it for themselves, they don't just discover a perfect group of like-minded individuals who can evoke the meaning of life from their deep, intellectual conversations with each other.
>sometimes I notice some couples or groups of friends around me, having fun, laughing together, and it bothers me
I think this is sort of a social darwinism version of the imposter syndrome. It seems so easy when you see a group of people laughing together. It seems like they just effortlessly entertain each other, but nobody sees the inner workings behind the scenes. Nobody sees the fact that Jenny secretly hates Stacy, but hides it because the group is fun to hang out with and Stacy is always there, or that Steve is dating Brian's ex and Brian says it's fine but really secretly hates it, etc...
This idea where you see couples or groups of people who just seem to effortlessly get along, and it seems like they aren't even trying is totally false. Sure, there are people for whom social skills come far more naturally, but relationships of any kind take effort by both parties to maintain and grow.
Well, I guess I can elaborate a bit. I have a bunch of obscure interests, and most people haven't even heard of them, much less share them or are nearly as interested in them as I am. I used to be ok with that, and would hang out with people who would want to talk about and do things that I have absolutely no interest in, but after a while I realized that I was wasting my time doing that.
I'd rather just spend the time by myself, reading about, learning, or doing things that I was interested in. One thing I take great refuge in is reading old books by or about truly great authors and people, and they're always interested in and talk about exactly the things I am interested in, simply because I choose to read only those books which are about what I'm interested in (or am open to becoming interested in).
From time to time, I've joined clubs or gone to meetups of people who are interested in one of the things that I am interested in, but then it's rare for them to be interested in the other obscure things I'm interested in. And I guess that's where I get too picky for my own good, as there's really little chance of finding people who share all or even a significant fraction of the obscure stuff I'm interested in.
Not that it has to be all about common interests. If I could somehow make a deep connection with someone I could see myself getting interested in some of the things they were interested in, or vice-versa. But that's hard to do if you don't already have something in common to begin with.
As to your point about what's happening behind the scenes of a superficially happy looking group of people, I recognize that it may not (and probably isn't) quite as idyllic as it looks on the surface, and that recognition gives me even less reason to seek companionship with other people. There's often a lot of pain and effort involved, and for me it's just not worth it. It's so much easier and simpler to just stay my own best (and only) friend.
I think it's remarkably important to surround yourself with people that are meaningful to you; that to me is different from things in common. Having things in common helps provide a medium for bonding but it's rarely the specific activity that is the focus for bonding, it's the shared experience that is.
There are lots of people that I call friends with whom I have little in-common, but there's a specific experience I've had with them or perhaps one specific thing to bond over that has created a strong connection.
Meaningful conversation is important too but I often find that trying to have a conversation I want to have can be productive. Many people are actually very interested in different ways of thinking or approaching life.
You are completely justified in your solitude. As you said, it works for you. Yet I still believe meaningful connections (and personal growth) are abound without superficiality if you are willing to give it time and effort.
...Sometimes I believe it is the disparity between myself and another that leads to a lasting, meaningful connection more so than the similarity.
Most of my strongest friendships have tended to happen with people who share some of the same core values that I do but who are fundamentally different than me in other ways. This makes the relationship very rewarding as every conversation is a potential learning or growth opportunity for both parties.
But the things you described are meaningful. Watching movies, playing games, and spending precious time doing "pointless" things are what life is about, in a sense. No one wants to hang out with someone who makes them feel worthless, that their mere companionship is a waste of time. Maybe take a step back and realize that other supposedly less interesting people are actually very interesting in their own ways. That is, assuming you want friends.
I thought that the point was that he didn't.
I've just come to realize my fundamental incompatibility with most of the people who I considered friends in the past. That doesn't mean that I feel I'm better than them in any way, just that we're not compatible.
So I'd rather just be by myself -- as, except in my darkest moods, I'm pretty compatible with myself.
That doesn't mean that I don't ever crave a deep, meaningful connection with others, and I have achieved that (though very rarely) before, but as I'm not very social, that's pretty hard for me to do.. not to mention that there are always prices to pay (from time and effort invested in finding/cultivating the relationship, to the pain and suffering when it ends, privacy/independence costs, etc), so most of the time I really don't want to bother. So much easier and safer to just curl up by myself with a good book in the evening.
Friendship as a word had more meaning before the advent of social media. Now it's become depersonalized: followers, Facebook/Instagram friends, Snapchat followers, Tinder pseudo-relationships, etc.
I've found the walled gardens to be the main problem. When I hopped on my Pentium II with my 28.8k modem, I met some of the most interesting people in the world. I still communicate with some to this day, but it's harder and harder to discover new friendships past a certain age.
I'd say your solution might be found in a different environment - perhaps a different state or country?
As for moving, I've done that many times in my life. I've found that for me, unless I already know somebody in the place I'm moving to, and can meet people through them, I have a very difficult time making new friends. And there's virtually no one I know well anywhere any more.
I think what it ultimately boils down to is not being very social to begin with, combined with some social phobia, with mostly non-mainstream interests, and being content enough with my own company most of the time. That's lead to a lifetime of habits and choices that have resulted in the withering of my friendships the lack of enough motivation to make much effort to get new ones.
Most of the time I don't even think about it, and when I do, I just wonder why I should bother, as my attempts usually lead to nothing or just more pain and suffering.
It doesn't help that the people I'd probably have the most in common with probably aren't very social themselves and have problems making friends too.
Social media is no substitute for meaningful interaction, but does anyone actually think it is? It's a nice middle ground between having someone important and involved in your life and hardly communicating with them at all; just because I don't want/can't maintain the former with someone doesn't mean I want the latter.
Tinder's a weird one to group in there, since it's geared towards meeting new people, not keeping up with your friends.
Also
> You can never truly connect with people anymore
Why not? You can still go outside and talk to people.
I blame things like instant messaging for making those baseline friendship interactions too easy and too disposable and too convenient.
My response is to get out there and I socialise anyway. If someone makes efforts to be friendly to me I man the fuck up and return in kind and I recognise the way I feel for the fault that it is. It's a dead end that leads to unhappiness. Hanging out with people (not just your friends, ANYONE) is like exercise for your mental health. The more you hate and dread it the more you probably need it so it's best to just get it over with because it'll become easier with renewed practise.
I've tried to force myself to socialise, but I always leave early (I cannot bear it), stressed and sweating through my blazer armpits, and just happy to leave the occasion.
Family seems so much more important to me now, and only somewhat stressful.
I guess I'm an introvert. I don't think that's ever going to change, and I've come to accept it. I lose energy when I'm with strangers. I don't want to do that anymore unless it is absolutely necessary.
Also, I am happy. I do not feel lonely. I may also be a bit of a hermit.
uh, you're sweating and freaking out when you're interacting with people. that isn't introversion, that's social anxiety or some other undiagnosed condition.
Of course, I'm not a trained psychologist and neither are you probably, so neither of us are qualified to say either way.
Socializing with strangers is boring and stressful, and I choose not to do it if possible. I don't feel like this is a condition that needs to be diagnosed and fixed :)
Just to check, have you found this to be important to you through experience or are you just sort of assuming that meaning is important? Those groups and couples aren't really doing anything meaningful. They're just hanging out with each other because it's fun.
If you're experiencing envy of people just hanging out and having fun then maybe your goals and your wants aren't aligned as well as they could be.
I assume that young people are instinctively expanding their social networks in search of mates. Older people do that too -- but it is less vitally imporant.
I think the relevant parts are toward the beginning. Full thing's worth listening to, several times. Or you could just read Infinite Jest.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxUY0kxH80
Particularly around 18 and 24 minutes, continuing for 6-10 minutes after. Ah yes, particularly at 30m.
The theme is interwoven throughought the interview though.
More recently, there are books like The Lonely Crowd from the 1960's, [2] and Anthony Storr's Solitude, from the 1980's[3]
Of course, for thousands of years, spending time in solitude has been greatly valued for religious reasons, for "building character", for coming in touch with oneself, or for creative purposes. On the other hand, modern life, and more recently the media (even before social media) have been criticized for alienating people from themselves and from each other.
[1] - http://www.hermitary.com/solitude/montaigne.html
[2] - https://www.amazon.com/Lonely-Crowd-Changing-Character-Paper...
[3] - https://www.amazon.com/Solitude-Return-Self-Anthony-Storr/dp...
I seem to recall a title "Solitude and the Self", though I can't find it via Worldcat. There's a similar one from the right timeframe: https://www.worldcat.org/title/solitude-a-return-to-the-self...
Arguably Chiksentmihilyi's work on Flow involves this too.
I think the truth is much more simple. Most people are not highly critical of introverts that prefer quiet and solitude. They may not understand it, but they are mostly indifferent. However, the harsh struggle for the introvert to connect with others on a deeper level leads him/her to that conclusion.
All my life I struggled with issues related to introversion, and having my own apartment basically solved all of them overnight. I've never been more social in my life than I was when I lived alone. The reason is simple: I was always able to recharge and never got to the point of being consistently drained.
I've been conflicted ever since with how I want to live the rest of my life, as living alone is in conflict with a lot of other goals that are also very important to me, like marriage.
[1] most absurd project I had the pleasure to witness, no organization whatsoever, being there at 7 would only mean waiting 2hours for directions, hence my lack of timeliness.
Also, business travel is a blessing.
Also, there's a big difference between merely living alone, and being alone.
While there are weekends that I'm happy to spend completely at home, seeing no one (except perhaps my girlfriend) and reading/working on projects, I know that if I really needed to see someone I could text some friends and be grabbing a drink or meal with them within a few hours.
This is now that I have a fairly well established social network. In college, the same situation - living alone, working on personal stuff all weekend but without a social network I could tap into - was a little depressing at times.
After many years, I am starting to show more acceptance towards my nature. Once I began to believe in the merits of my introversion, the stress started to melt away. Loneliness is only a problem if you believe it to be true.
Unfortunately, this article is more likely to perpetuate the stress from loneliness with its disparaging attitude towards it.
Nowadays I work from an office with a bunch of other people around me at all times. When I come home, there's my girlfriend. Sure I love her and I definitely can't afford my own rent, but sometimes I just wish I could come home to an empty apartment, you know?
Late nights are the last bastion of aloneness I can get. But how long can I maintain a schedule of going to bed at 2am or 3am and being bright and ready at the office by 10am? it works for now, but I'll be 30 next year. Surely there are limits.
The funny thing is that this prevalence of forced-upon social contact makes me too tired to build a real social network. I just don't have the energy to hang out with friends, or even much inclination to see them. This often makes me feel lonelier than I ever did when I spent 90% of my days alone.
This is enough for her to take the time to walk around undressed, read articles, make some food, watch junk TV and enjoy the silence before I get home. Relationship-defining quality of life improvement. I similarly enjoy working late knowing it is creating value (as opposed to feeling guilty and conflicted, which eventually becomes burnout). Highly recommend it.
It took me a little while to learn in my married life that spending Saturday morning doing outside chores allowed me to have a much more satisfying Saturday night.
I know it's none of my business, but even if it's somewhere tiny or far, getting your own place might be the best thing you've ever done... Just throwing it out there. (It is my strong conviction that love and rent should not be in the same sentence.)
It's like getting a business partner for your personal life.
This may be naïve, but have you and her talked about this? I understand it may be possible for her to interpret wrong, but it sounds like something that you two can work out without needing to rent a separate apartment.
She'd probably spend a lot of time at my place, or vice-versa, anyway so it definitely makes sense to live together. It's also one of those things that are nearly impossible to back down from without harming the relationship once you reach this stage.
I've been in relationships where I've spent a weekend at hers, but tell her I need to go for a walk by myself. It may come off weird, but most of them have been cool with it once I explain and offer reassurance that it's not because the relationship is fracturing.
As a scrappy programmer who spends a lot of hours each week working in solitude on projects, I know I would simply fail in my pursuits if I cared in any deep, identifying way about "social status." It's the type of mindset I've been trying to escape for years after attending an elite university that had an annoyingly sizable amount of people with 'country club' mindsets (albeit a country club of smart people). I just personally think there are pretty strict limits on the amount of success you can achieve if you find it too difficult to depart with a mindset of maintaining social status. It will endanger your independent thinking in subtle ways, as well as the sincerity of your motivations. Pretty sure even YC is on alert about founders who are interested in the 'social status' that goes with having a YC startup, for good reasons.
Surprise, we're social animals, we care deeply and intrinsically about this crap. Best to embrace it and understand it for what it is. That way at least you're in control.
There are a lot of pragmatic benefits that come from having good social standing. Everything from an emotional support structure when things go wrong, to ease of accessing resources when you need them. For example: if you alienate everyone around you and destroy your social standing, then nobody will help you when your startup blows up and you're about to get kicked out on the street. You'll need a couch to crash on for a few days, but nobody to ask for it.
"this prevalence of forced-upon social contact makes me too tired to build a real social network"
Here's an example from Scrubs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bExo_DpfokI "Nothing sucks as much as feeling all alone no matter how many people are around"
> Loneliness, longing, does not mean one has failed,
Our modern obsession with failure is really the problem. If "failure" wasn't a thing, we'd get up and do something, but instead we give ourselves reasons to attack ourselves and make it some existential threat, all the while thinking exercising our intellect will solve all our problems.
Thinking of loneliness will only make you lonelier. Instead, if one acted on it, the natural progression would lead to relationships, love, and babies. Perfectly natural course of action.
Fuck failure. Whoever got you thinking you are a failure is an idiot, so punch them in the mouth, even if that person is you. At least that's doing something about it!
This is not a critique of your argument, but most of the time if discuss these kind of articles (or general psychological things) there are always counterexamples. This is the real world, not math.
> this is generalisation
Should be: "this is a generalization". It's understandable though.
> This is not a critique of your argument
Again understandable, but should be something like "I am not criticizing your argument".
The rest is correct I think. Hope I got everything right, I'm not a native speaker either :)
In a different world where communicators are scarce, we would be forced to be better communicators by our peers and elders; like we push children to learn math and science, or (lately) programming. To our detriment world is full of able communicators and they can't understand why we can't communicate better.I think of it this way: I sincerely can't understand why a person fails to understand basic programming concepts like a while loop and the communicators (extroverts if you'd like) can't understand why we can't handle small talk.
The problem grows bigger and harder to handle because our natural inclinations are toward subjects that are deemed smarter(scarce I'd say) and we start seeing ourselves smarter and more skilled which leads to superiority complex: We start thinking and behaving as if we are above the things that make us feel inferior in the first place. We start to think that we create tangible things while others babble all day. We become living examples of Dunning–Kruger effect when it comes to interpersonal relations.
Nobody likes a smartass, so people leave us alone with our huge Egos.
A lack of interest in certain topics or unwillingness to engage in particular activities does not automatically imply that I think those are below me or that I'm superior. I'm simply indifferent.
This is a popular misunderstanding that people keep repeating over and over again "Oh he doesn't like X he must think he is too good for that.".
Second I disagree with the notion that complying with the social norm is "social/communication skill" while an unwillingness to conform, or being slightly different from the norm somehow means defective or low "communication skill".
I know damn well how to conform and make everyone approve of me and praise me for "communication skills" but I simply don't want to.
If I don't dive into the smalltalk that's because I have no desire to do so, not because of my communication skills.
It's like a bunch of introverts blaming the others for not having good "solitude skills".
How come we don't fault extroverts for not being able to shut up for a while?
In every skill there are protocols to learn as a beginner and small talk is where you start when it comes to communication. I think that people are like programming languages. Each one of us are Turing complete, but each one of us are suited better for different tasks.
Small talk is the "Hello World" of human interaction. You start understanding other people's syntax and how they function through small talk. Extroverts understand that innately. You can't move on to deeper subjects with another person until you understand what they are made of.
We tend to dismiss small talk as unimportant so we fail to build rapport with our peers. Without rapport, our relations and the topics we discuss stay shallow. We start misjudging other people as shallow based on our interactions, failing to recognize our indifference toward other people is the root cause of this shallowness.
Communication is the pillar human society is built upon so it is a good idea to master its intricacies. Especially in this age if you want to build anything worthwhile, you have to have a deep understanding of how to communicate with others. If you have that understanding kudos to you.
We generally fail to understand that, and my first comment was exploring why I personally failed and became lonelier over time, hoping that it might help someone in a similar situation since being and feeling lonely is not good for the long term.*
To answer your last question; I think "mindfulness" is just introverts blaming others for not having good solitude skills and doing something about it.
Thank you for this interaction.
* There is a longitudinal Harvard study on happiness, you might want to watch the TED talk of its director : https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_waldinger_what_makes_a_good...
it's like this...
when i am with people, i'd rather be alone.
when i am alone, i'd rather be with people.
"
http://oldpostsecret.tumblr.com/post/3718743344/its-like-thi...
The time in my life where I most struggled with loneliness, I had just moved to a new big city. I went out looking for social experiences literally all the time, but never found the people that I could form deep friendships with. Transient social interactions and passing friendships, sure, but deep social relationships just take a long time to form. Eventually I moved to another city where I had more friends, and now I'm much happier.
Loneliness is just psychologically crushing.