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Comment by pierrebai | Hacker News Reader

You don't need higher-kinded types for that. Just always return a promise, except the blocking version always return a promise that is already fulfilled.

This is just a variation of 'any problem can be solved by adding a level of indirection' + 'any protocol can have a dummy implementation'.

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One can almost always respond to a particular use-case with "well you could just do this instead." But the point is that there is a broader problem which type classes solve, which is to identify similar behavior and encode it in abstraction, such that your code becomes more generic and reusable. It's a powerful mechanism which leads to beautiful, performant and expressive code. You clearly don't need higher kinded types in order to write programs, much like any number of other features one doesn't need, but they can provide a huge boost.

  > What if you want to write a library that
  works with either blocking calls or
  asynchronous promises?

  You don't need higher-kinded types for that.
  Just always return a promise, except the
  blocking version always return a promise that
  is already fulfilled.

While strictly speaking this approach will work, a benefit of employing higher-kinded types (HTK's) to express a solution is being able to optimize without having to alter the solution.

For this example, the Scalaz Id[0] type provides this adaptation. Since it conforms to what is expected of a container, yet does not require the overhead of fabricating one just to satisfy expectations, it affords HKT-based logic to be useful while automatically selecting the optimal implementation.

In short, working in an environment which supports HKT's often allows implementations to reduce needless overhead, simplify implementations (by only having to address "happy path" logic), and promotes stability in a code base due to formally expressing the expectations of collaborators.

0 - http://eed3si9n.com/learning-scalaz/Id.html

The problem is that by doing this, you have made an operation that should be instantaneous - readLineFuture: () => Future[Line] - into something that now has built in lag.

I.e. you've pulled the side effects (blocking) from the future to the present.

That built in lag is so incredibly miniscule in the grand scheme of programming that 99.9999% of times it will not matter, and if it does you are using C or Assembly anyways.

No, it matters. Inefficiency adds up, and CPU cycles you waste on useless overhead aren't available to spend on something that actually matters -- like Garbage Collection.

Boost.ASIO (and the corresponding C++ network TR proposal) uses HKTs to select the wait strategy (i.e. coroutines, futures, plain callbacks or whatever the user prefers) with minimal overhead.

That argument applies to the example of the abstraction, not the abstraction itself.

It matters a lot if you are relying on asynchronous semantics. You risk deadlock if the request blocks.

No, readLine will block until a line is available.

Consider a command line IM app using pipes to communicate to the server (just to roll with the readLine example). User 1 has not typed anything, so their file is empty. User 2 has typed a bunch of stuff.

    user1line = readLine "user1file.pipe"
    user2line = readLine "user2file.pipe"
    getFirstAvailableFutureAndProcess [user1line, user2line] processorFunc

What you want this to do is handle whichever user types something first. In reality it will only process user1line.

If you instantiate `t` as a promise then you have to always consider that it isn't there yet, even if you're saying that it's going to be. If you instantiate `t` as `Identity` [0] then you have a type level guarantee that your value is there. You have a guarantee that your program blocks when you say it will.

And that's the point of a lot of these abstractions. It's not about being able to write something that you couldn't in another language. After all, we could create the same functionality in assembly.

[0] https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.2.2.1/doc...

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