Is projecting a message onto the wall of a building a trespass?
washingtonpost.com
washingtonpost.com
You probably have a legitimate claim to call it vandalism though. Easily repaired vandalism (just turn the projector off) but deliberate defacement all the same.
> action involving deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property.
It is neither damage nor destruction unless you use a nearly incomprehensible definition of either word.
You might be able to call it disturbing the peace but that's criminal and not civil so removes some ability to seek redress from the building owner.
According to Wikipedia, throwing shoes over powerlines already counts as vandalism (though I wouldn't mind a citation on that). If throwing shoes over powerlines (which anyone can agree is fully reversible) then you should be able to argue that projecting light is vandalism too.
Actually, projecting light is worse, is't not actually possible for the target can clean up the defacement, short of forcing you to turn the projector off.
I have no idea if shoes over power lines is actually vandalism or not, I'm willing it is in some areas (Los Angeles? NYC?) and not in others (Duluth? Fargo?).
Vandalism law shouldn't even care if the cost to repair the damage is zero. With regular vandalism offering to clean and repair the damage might convince the victim to not press changes, but it's not a get out of jail free card, they can still press charges.
Also, I assume damage to reputation before the vandalism was 'repaired' can be taken into account under current law.
If the projected accusations are true, then the damage to reputation is really coming from the person's own actions being widely communicated. Right to control property is one thing, but we have no right to control what is widely known about our actions.
The article is essentially the legal reasoning from the Nevada Court of Appeal - some fairly experienced legal minds examining the situation (in this case, via an appeal).
They're fairly clear in how they examine the situation and that no accepted definition of trespass applies and suggest some recourse to 'victims' who could, rather than incur huge legal fees, simply set their own competing projector to overcome the undesired images. An example of appeal judges being fairly pragmatic and laying a foundation for lawyers handling future cases to suggest better resolutions than expensive litigation - if only they'd read appeal court decisions /and remember them/.
However, they do also suggest there is a case to consider the situation a nuisance (s.4) and take action that way.
Given they make no mention of vandalism as an avenue, it seems quite evident the experienced legal experts suggest the situation is one of nuisance and should be handled as that if resorting to law.
Why should anyone on HN argue with a qualified legal opinion by suggesting alternative legal strategies?
The test that I remember seeing applied in the past concerns "intention distruction or defacement". As I understand it, alterations (graffiti, breaking a window, removing ornamentation, etc.) that alters the physical object or space can apply.
As far as I know, where I have lived most(Western Australia) it is not considered vandalism.
This is the third result on Google for "vandalism chalk"(though it seems to have some mixed messages):
https://itsartlaw.com/2013/09/02/california-court-rules-that...
> Why should anyone on HN argue with a qualified legal opinion by suggesting alternative legal strategies?
there are a long list of reasons why we might want to:
- some of us have qualified legal opinions of our own
- it's a discussion site
- the victims here employed a poor legal strategy, as nuisance claims were obviously more likely to succeed than trespass claims, so it isn't like there wasn't room for improvement upon the actual legal strategy
- because even lay-people may be right on legal matters (though they rarely tend to be)
I'm sure there are many, many more reasons why, but off the top of my head, those will do. The idea that we shouldn't have free reign to discuss things we don't have expert knowledge of would, if put in action, eliminate the very purpose of forums like HN.
It seems the core of this issue is the definition of "tangible". Why does the law profession choose to use such obtuse wording? There doesn't appear to be any way for normal people or even lawyers to identify if something is tangible in the way the law describes it.
I'm not 100% $ure, but I have my $u$picion$...
> pc86 will build a WP brochure site for linker3000 for $1,500.
But you need it by a certain date?
> add date clause
But I'm not taking a risk that you might not have the money
> add non-refundable deposit clause
But what if my house gets flooded or I lose electricity for a month?
> add Force Majeure class
But what if you give me a bunch of stolen images to use?
> add indemnity clause
> add IP clause
But what if I violate half a dozen labor laws while completing your work?
> add another indemnity clause
Repeat over and over again until you have a 15+ page single-spaced contract for a piddly $1,500 website.
Words mean things. In law, words typically mean very specific things. That's why "trespass" doesn't fit here, even though I think we can all agree you shouldn't be able to project messages onto someone else's property no matter what the message is or where you happen to be standing.
Anyway, having a bunch of many very specific terms is hardly specific to lawyers, that's not the problem. The problem with legalese, as I see it, is that it lacks higher-order types and lambdas... Erm... efficient means of generalization or specialization inline, without a need for two sentences to add one minor detail and the need for a full, multi-paragraph clause when adding a somewhat "standard" - without any modifications - piece of an arrangement.
Heck, even a simple inheritance would help (you get a GeneraIPClause and while writing an agreement you just write `OurIPClause is GeneralIPClause with { ...modifications... }`.
English isn't code. You don't get "higher-order types and lambdas" in English, come on now.
Tangible normally means "touchable" though who knows what the law makes of the word. I don't think one can touch light in any meaningful sense.
Legislators should draft a law that defines what 'it' is (e.g. not ambient light), what is excluded (art? abandoned buildings?), and how bad is it (jail, fine, etc).
This is a problem which Marshall McLuhan wrote about frequently, he described our situation as if we were navigating the present like someone driving down the road using only the rear view mirror.
>Hypnotized by their rear-view mirrors, philosophers and scientists alike tried to focus the figure of man in the old ground of nineteenth-century industrial mechanism and congestion. They failed to bridge from the old figure to the new. It is man who has become both figure and ground via the electrotechnical extension of his awareness. With the extension of his nervous system as a total information environment, man bridges art and nature.
How about an advertisement whose light enters the private space of my car?
There are a number of laws related to endangering the public using light; for example, the issues related to lasers and airplane pilots.
>ambient light entering private space as a side effect of projecting a message elsewhere
Advertisements are not designed to be projected anywhere else besides your psyche.
>focused light entering the same space with the intent of creating the message within the space.
Again, visual advertisements are focused light created with the intent of inserting a message into your eyes and psyche.
Property: a thing or things belonging to someone.
Do our minds not belong to us?
Sigh. Galileo was not burned at the stake. At least they got wave-particle duality mostly right.
But, as I said, I might be wrong.
(source: native Englishman)
Being hung, drawn, and quartered meant literally "Convicts were fastened to a hurdle, or wooden panel, and drawn by horse to the place of execution, where they were hanged (almost to the point of death), emasculated, disembowelled, beheaded and quartered (chopped into four pieces)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered
Others are included in a more general article on capital punishments:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methods_of_capital_p...
Reason: you purchase or build a wall to enjoy it's features. Those might be protecting your property, keeping out cold, or having a certain appearance. If I have a yellow wall and you project red onto it, then you have denied me a feature of my wall. Hence, you should be stopped from doing that.
A second concern, who is responsible for what is projected onto the wall? The owner of the wall or the projectionist? Say someone projects some questionable video on the wall. If the wall didn't exist the video would not be showing to cause the concern to passing people. But it does, so who gets the fine?
Practically speaking in my city, based on ordinances, if there's no sign that says "Post No Bills" then "It is okay to post flyers on this building." The flyers should be different from vandalism, in that they are not permanent nor so flimsy as to fall off and become litter. A projection easily fits into this category, physical or digital "bill" so to speak.
As a property owner, you should not have to request (by means of a "Post No Bills" message or other) that other people don't interfere with your property.
Unfortunately, that argument was apparently not explicitly made in the suit.
Not even that is necessarily true, since in many cases there are superseding laws covering the external appearance of buildings and to what extent they can be used as billboards (and what those billboards can and cannot display)
If the beam can cause injury, there's that.
If it's done in a manner meant to annoy, intimidate, or harrass, quite possibly.
See as a general parallel paparrazi laws, in some regions. Being in public doesn't provide you with unlimited capacity to act, particularly as that influences others.
My guess is that they could also claim nuisance.
"The traditional common-law view was that property injury caused by such things as light, gas, sound, smoke, odors, or vibrations might constitute an actionable nuisance under the right circumstances, but could not support a cause of action in trespass."
> “a trespass may also occur when intangible matter, such as particles emanating from a manufacturing plant, cause actual and/or substantial damage to the [property].”
Seriously?
The court seemed to suggest that using old laws to tackle a new issue wasn't appropriate:
> "If the Nevada Legislature wanted to bar projecting images onto a wall, it could do so"
If that outlook takes hold more broadly, then there would be a whole swathe of potential issues relating to technology, communications and the internet. Government would need to come up with a lot of new law.