Evidence on how to find the right career
80000hours.org
80000hours.org
Applied to careers, I take the talk as implying that trying things is the secret. After a certain level of experience in your career, you'll know whether you like it. Branching off of that, it might even be the right thing to do to find a new career.
One of the best pieces of advice I have ever received is "successful people do stuff. It doesn't matter what that stuff is, just do stuff and you'll eventually be successful". Some people will be luckier than others, and be successful at their stuff at a higher ratio, but overall, the ratio is about the same, and you just need to keep doing stuff.
Also, one of my favorite illustrations/cartoons of all time[2] speaks to this point. Basically, if you pursue the same career for your entire life, you're probably wasting your time. once you have your x,000 hours of work in, do something new where you can cross-apply that knowledge into domains that need it.
[1]https://youtu.be/l_F9jxsfGCw
[2]http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2722
Edit: sloppy link formatting
You'll know whether your like it, but it may be too late to change. And some careers require a long initial investment. Let say I graduate in CS/Math at 23 and that I work 3-4 years in a company, is it too late to become an MD? or start a PhD? some people manage to do it but it's difficult.
If you graduate with a degree in math or computer science, you can work in just about any division of tech, you can work in just about any division of finance (maybe not traditional investment banking, but most analyst/trading/quant roles), you can work in certain applications of biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, genetics or other sciences, you can work in many areas of advertising, you can work in many areas of marketing...you could start your own company, you could publish a novel...frankly you could do just about everything other than be a lawyer or a doctor.
Writing all this out, it actually sounds like the optimal career path is to get formal education and training in the most difficult or restricted fields, because you'll still have so many options anyway. Then you can cross-pollinate your knowledge in other fields.
I went back to school at age 24, for PhD (in experimental condensed matter physics). On one hand it was hard going from earning a nice salary to very little stipend. But on the other hand I came in freshly determined, where some of my fellow incoming students just in from their undergrad days weren't as into it.
I was certainly above average age for the incoming student class, but there were a few other students in similar situation, and some had worked even longer before coming back to school.
I also changed fields again afterwards. Towards the end of my PhD I got a bit fed up with he daily realities of life as an experimental physicist, and almost by chance found my way into an internship as a quant in the financial sector. I enjoyed the internship greatly, and afterwards wrote up my thesis and then started working at the same company.
It's interesting because up until around 1-2 yrs before that internship, I never would have thought I'd work in finance. I had no interest from the little bit about finance that I knew. But one day in supplementary course notes during a many-body field theory class, there was a little aside where the prof derived the Black Scholes equation using a Feynman path integrals and it just blew my mind. I had no previous idea there was so much formalism underlying financial products.
There was a grey haired PhD student in my department. He told me he had built and run an investment bank in Los Angeles for most of his life then moved to Cambridge (UK) to pursue a PhD in engineering and he was having a blast. It was probably easier for him than the young ones since his kids were grown up and he already had a career and money.
For example, buying a home: if you've rented a bunch of places, it becomes clear what you want. You may notice that choosing a flat gets easier as you get older.
This also explains why so many people find relationships so difficult: most people only have a few (some only 1 or 2) serious relationships in their life. There's little opportunity to work out what you like.
Rather, job satisfaction is well predicted by (1) expertise in the given field, (2) quality of coworkers, and (3) freedom to do what you think is right. For me, I'd say this is pretty accurate.
Generally, there are a few popular models of job satisfaction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_satisfaction.
We also interviewed the author of 'So Good' about their latest book just 2 weeks ago: https://80000hours.org/2016/08/is-deep-work-the-most-underap...
Here are our extensive thoughts on the job satisfaction literature: https://80000hours.org/career-guide/job-satisfaction . I think it's a pretty fun read. :)
this is especially true about the things that may have long-term impact, because i know it's going to screw us down the line.
I'm not saying that's you, but it might be. If you have this trait, you better be right a lot, or nobody will want to work with you.
day to day, i deal with people like you a lot. armchair quarterbacks and real-life concern trolls. that's why owning a business is hard.
Case in point. I'm a scientist, working on drug delivery technology. I absolutely love research as a career. What I hate though is the poor pay, non-existant job security, irregular work life balance and cult of self-sacrifice.
In retrospect, could I go back 20 years and start again I would have pursued a career with greater job security and pay, less stress and more flexible working conditions. Such jobs include regional train driving, trades-crafts or administration to name a few (in my region).
These days I value less my career and more my free time with which I can pursue my hobbies.
Subnote: With the advances in automation I think we should also consider whether spending x0,000 hours to become great at a career is really important anymore. Is it ethical to tell someone to sacrifice huge swathes of their time/life for a career that might not exist when they're ready?
2nd Subnote: I want to expand my comment again after finishing the article. I think we need to bear in mind that theres a lot of unspoken assumptions in this guide. For instance, the assumption that theres time to explore possible careers or that one can even trial different careers. A lot of people I know from more difficult backgrounds never had the luxury to try things. They had to make money to support their family so they took what they could get. Alternatively, they never had exposure to other fields so didn't know what was out there anyway. "Finding the right career" is in retrospect an extremely telling phrase about ones socioeconomic and political position.
This is part four of our career guide; the first article is all about what actually creates job satisfaction: http://80000hours.org/career-guide/job-satisfaction . I think we say everything you said on your comment, and a lot more.
While people are varied, there are a few factors identified in the psychological literature that are highly predictive of overall job satisfaction and fulfillment for most of us. :)
I like the intention and amount of work you've invested in this but I can't help but feel uneasy about something.
But actually if you read on the career paths we recommend in the career guide involve developing highly practical and marketable skills. We just think that turning those valuable skills towards improving the world will provide people with fulfillment in the long term.
I actually think automation makes it more important to gain strong skills rather than less, because it's increasing inequality. It's just you need to gain transferable skills that are resistant to automation. We go into much more detail here: https://80000hours.org/career-guide/career-capital/
I also think it's possible for everyone to take an empirical approach to their career to some degree, but it's certainly true that it's more important if you have more options.
You spend a huge amount of time in your work. We are mostly privileged enough to choose the job we take. Don't stay where you're unhappy. Don't settle for a job you don't find fulfilling.
Why not do this now?
Not the content though. Instead I'm referring to some new web chicanery with the janky popup that appears when you mouse your mouse off the page in preparation for navigating back.
Normally these just invite you to join an email list or whatever.
But this one seems to be actually personalized based on referer - I saw "Sorry to do this to you HN.". I had instinctively closed it as always before it struck me this is the first time I've ever seen that.
I guess there's some kind of database somewhere of referers, with a groovy customized "sorry you're leaving" phrase for each one?
Of course, if I choose to have kids, then this course would alter. I would have to shoulder the responsibility of being my kids' sole provider til they are able to fend for themselves. If I'm married and have taken the vow, then I would abide by my spouse til death do us part. I would also without a doubt, see my aged old parents whom did not managed to save for retirement well into their golden years.
All that above is only when I have made the conscious effort to start a family. Otherwise, providing for one's family cannot be the motivator for starting a firm and letting all else - things pertaining to my self-interests and ambitions take a back seat don't seem logical to me at all.
I know reality is crushing. I also know I have the power to think and to change things. I will not succumb.
Somewhere, there's someone that loves you enough to accept you for this. ;) Everyone needs family, even Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent.
Can we not whimsically redefine words that are already well-defined or at least explicitly state how you want to use it if you're going to make a generic statement with it else stick to it's common meaning.
Unfortunately (or maybe not), the world (and the organic chemistry that you are made of) is not a collection of rational entities. It is extremely hard to stay rational in that context. Good luck with trying to do that. (meant non-sarcastically)
That would suffice.
In my experience, people are social creatures. We like to find a tribe, we like to help others, and we like social networks that stretch beyond a single partner and children.
Farming for yourself is a very inefficient way to live.
Not trying to convince you to change, each to his own, but just pointing out that you may be missing out on some good things in life.
The advice about keeping your options open is IMO basically advice to do a STEM degree. It is plausible that someone who studied science could read a lot and become a political consultant. It's a lot less plausible that someone who studied politics is going to pick up a book on fluid dynamics and work on formula one cars. Neither should logically be impossible (it's just books after all) but what will most employers' intuition be? Both are small industries where opportunities are limited.
What's needed is more transparency. Nothing throughout school or university showed me anything relevant about work. For instance, what salary can you get from various careers? I was left with some leaflets with rough estimates for finance and consultancy. And I had an offer in Engineering. But apart from that, no clue.
What would make sense would be if firms got some kind of incentive to let young people come in and have a look. And young people would be sent to do various things, not just the ones they (or their parents) think will be best. I remember one 18 year old intern who somehow knew she wanted to work in investment banking (what she was doing in quantitative finance is a good question).
The simulated annealing that's possible with youth is astounding. I wish I hadn't been so stupid at the time.
Having said that, I'm squirreling away most of my earnings so that I can make a careful step to my next career without needing to rush. It should be another one with pretty good earnings; tack those savings up with the ones from my current job, and the next job, when it comes, can be almost anything, with little regard for level of income.
I guess what I'm saying is that I'm staying very conservative in my finances so I can stretch further in other dimensions of life without risk of over extending.
Bouncing around between grad school and different fields (or specializations within a field) is an expensive (mostly in terms of opportunity cost) luxury many cannot afford and many that can afford cannot justify.