Soylent Bar Has Arrived | Hacker News Reader

Soylent Bar Has Arrived

blog.soylent.com

26 pointsdeegles55 comments

Uses soy protein, making it a non-starter for informed people wanting to build/maintain muscle mass. A McMaster study[1] demonstrated that 20g of soy protein (S20) was as effective at muscle protein synthesis (MPS) as 0g.

This bar contain 12g of soy protein, making it about as effective for MPS as plain water.

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22698458?dopt=Citation

"RESULTS: Whole-body leucine oxidation increased with protein ingestion and was significantly greater for S20 vs. W20 (P = 0.003). Rates of MPS for S20 were less than W20 (P = 0.02) and not different from 0 g (P = 0.41) in both exercised and non-exercised leg muscles. For S40, MPS was also reduced compared with W40 under both rested and post-exercise conditions (both P < 0.005); however S40 increased MPS greater than 0 g under post-exercise conditions (P = 0.04)."

Isn't that the point? It's not Muscle Milk or other mass-building replacements.

You do understand your body needs to build muscles every day right?

If a large part of your protein intake is based on soy you can quickly start to lose muscle mass which isn't great.

It looks like rapid weight loss but you are effectively gaining fat and losing strength.

You're confusing maintaining muscle with gaining muscle. You don't have any study supporting the claim that you would lose muscle by getting your protein from soy. The only study here says that thirty 70+ year old men didn't gain muscle while taking soy protein isolate.

Most people I've talked to or read about who use Soylent also mix protein powder into it.

This is interesting. Why would a source of complete amino acids be totally ineffective?

http://nutritionstudies.org/animal-vs-plant-protein/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid#Relative_...

the prevailing theory (which makes sense to me, fwiw) is that protein from meat has a much closer amino acid profile to human muscle compared to protein from plants.

Is there any other study not focusing on 71 year old men which is as conclusive? It's strange group to focus and then claim it's as effective as plain water for everyone.

Have they ever addressed concerns about endocrine/hormone disruption from using soy protein so heavily? I steer clear of the stuff with a 10 foot pole.

Do you have any sources for the disturption? I hear this from time to time, but whatever I read points to possible connections relating to very high consumption of soy products. But I'm cautious.

I half believe the dairy industry actively spreads the negativity.

http://examine.com/supplements/soy-isoflavones/ Specifically section 9. Also http://examine.com/nutrition/is-soy-good-or-bad-for-me/

Based on that and other reading I've done I wouldn't be worried about occasional soy intake, but ingesting every meal of nearly pure soy product as one might if they used Soylent could be cause for concern for males.

Just to highlight what I think is a pretty important point in the source:

> Most well-conducted meta-analyses come to similar conclusions. The evidence is too weak or varied to come to the conclusion that 'soy reduces testosterone'.

They go on to say that it could be linked, maybe, but probably only for drastic over-consumption. In short, even with study there isn't enough information to come to a real conclusion so effects are probably minimal if at all.

Also, interestingly,

> The 25g of soy protein a day is consistent with the claim that "Soy protein can reduce occurrence of cardiovascular disease" which is approved by the FDA for products with more than 6.25g soy protein.

Which has a ton of sources and supports soy will help most people. The effect may not be huge, but it's more well documented.

Over all, it seems people are better off eating more soy.

I don't have a source off hand but I remember the heart-healthy effects of soy being quite small in magnitude. Personally I try to avoid anything that has the potential to be a strong endocrine or hormone disruptor like soy and plastic products. That is nearly impossible these days, but it makes me feel better :)

It may be small, but if you read the source far more documented and larger than any potential "hormone effect" of soy. Also larger practical effect on your life.

There's plenty of evidence in the links I posted for a large effect of high concentrations of circulating soy compounds in the body. I don't doubt that it is a non-issue for most people consuming normal amounts of soy. The issues I have, and they are not well studied, is 1) what do concentrations look like over long periods of normal-to-higher consumption of soy products(like long-term usage of Soylent, nearly 100% soy protein) 2) is there an additive or synergistic effect with other, stronger hormone and endocrine disrupting compounds like those found in some plastics and plasticizers, your exposure to which is effectively impossible to eliminate in modern life. Neither of those two are well studied, and I'd personally like to try and reduce my exposure to either situation.

Most people don't care, and that's fine, but there is evidence it could be a problem.

Edit: I'll also add that to be fair to Soylent, they use Soy Protein Isolate, which has drastically reduced levels of soy isoflavones compared to straight soy protein. That alone probably reduces any potential harm to near-zero, but I personally like to reduce my exposure as much as possible, so as long as there are alternatives that are equal or better(as there are with soy) I will reduce my exposure. YPRCMV(your personal risk calculation may vary).

And by "nearly pure soy" you mean, of course, "20% soy content".

But close enough, right?

I meant in terms of protein content of the product, which is where the negative and beneficial effects of soy come from. If you eat Soylent for every meal nearly all the protein you are consuming is in the form of soy protein.

It's weird people (guys generally) are so paranoid about soy with so little data, yet don't avoid sugar or red meat which actually have well documented and scary health affects.

As a cyclist that loves to do long solo rides, I often look for nutrient dense foods that are easy to carry. Thirty grams of carbohydrates is better than most energy gels and snacks.

$2 per bar is a tad steep considering my normal costs. I might purchase a box if I hear that the flavor is decent (and my current supplies run out).

I would expect it to be relatively flavorless if the bottles are anything to go by.

It says on their site that it is caramel flavored

Not sure where you stand on drinks but I found that gels and bars get expensive really fast if you want to refuel properly for long hard rides, and they're a pain to make yourself.

I nowadays just buy bulk maltodextrin, which works out to a dollar for 1000kcal, and mix that with water and an electrolytes tablet.

How much do you have to carry during your rides? Never used tablets, but I should look into them.

I'll prepare two bottles with (total) 1.2L water and about 500kcal worth of maltodextrin. That carries me for 100k easily but I'll take some bars or gels along for longer rides.

There is no way I can get by with only two bottles of water. I live in Southern California and I primarily do long climbs. The biggest climbs right near me are only (Strava) Cat 2, but I like to head out for climbs on Cat HCs. No stores on mountain climbs.

When I tackle Mt. Wilson, I carry a disposable bottle of water in one of my jersey pockets. I will drink this bottle until I arrive at the actual base (but there still is plenty of climbing until that point). I will then throw the bottle away and use my two bottles on my bike to get to the first range station, where I can get more water. Hydration is key. 100k with only two bottles?

I guess it does get hotter in Southern California :) 90°F days are rare here, and there isn't much in terms of cat 2 or HC climbs either, just lot's of rolling terrain (100k will average out to 1000m vertical, 2000m if you seek out climbs).

This is my planned use-case for the Soylent bars also.

My biggest concern is that it might not hold up in hot climates (see: Texas) during rides. I've already tried other bars that turn to mush in heat.

I also agree about the cost, since you can buy clif bars in bulk for less than $1.50/ea. And lately I've just been taking bananas with me on rides, which are like $0.10/ea.

I ordered a box earlier today, so we'll see how it works out. Worst case scenario, I keep them around for when I travel.

I live in SoCal, so I also have to avoid bars that might melt. Chewy granola bars do not handle well, but cereal bars do. Looking at my pantry, Trader Joe fig bars have 27 grams of carbs, but only 2g of protein. Honey Stinger waffles have the same amount of grams, but half the protein. Why are they around $1 per waffle? They do taste great and love that they pack flat.

I find Clif Bars junk, mostly sugar, but they do hold up in the heat. It might be hotter in Texas, but you are in the flats. When I am climbing Mt. Wilson on a bike, there are no stores to replenish my food supplies, except at the top. I cannot deviate from the only road just to grab something from a store. There is a ranger station halfway for water.

BTW, Clif Bars should be $1 at Whole Foods or Trader Joes, or at least they used to be.

It's like Calorie Mate Balanced Food Block, from Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co. That's humanoid chow for Japanese salarymen. Like the Soylent product, it's in very plain packaging. It's not as soy-heavy as Soylent; it has wheat flour and wheat and soy protein. Some milk and egg powder, too. Tastes like shortbread.

This is quite successful in Japan, and often found in vending machines. The manufacturer doesn't recommend living entirely on the stuff, though.

If you're curious about cost-effectiveness of their bar vs their drink:

Soylent 2.0 Bottle = 400 Calories, ~$29 for 12 bottles (via Amazon) works out to ~166 calories per dollar.

Soylent Bar = 250 calories, $24 for 12 bars (via Soylent.com) works out to ~120 calories per dollar.

Where are you seeing the bottles on Amazon for $28? I see the same price as Soylent.com ($34.00 without a subscription).

If you subscribe and save it works out to $28.90 (updating original comment)

Just one more data point,

Soylent powder = 2000 calories per bag, 64 dollars for 7 bags ~ 219 calories per dollar

40/40/20 carb/fat/protein seems to suggest they didn't really know where to go with this. No point to have the fat for endurance sports, probably too little protein for sports that care about that, no information on the glycemic index for the carbs.

I think their goal is to support the average person living a 'normal' life.

But it's too expensive for the calorie intake of the average overweight American.

Yeah, I'd really like to see more specialized options for other diets. I'd like to have a ketogenic option.

Me too. Sadly, they don't seem to have enough demand for it yet.

A version with whey or pea protein and less carbs would make me a convert for two out of three meals a day, if not all three during the work week.

I wonder if this will make you feel as 'full' as the soylent drink? Generally liquids do a much better job of making you feel full quickly, which would reduce your desire to eat something else.

Geez, why have an advertising department when the online tech community will do all the heavy lifting? /s

If you went by Ars stories and HN links, you'd think the software industry was fueled by Soylent and insect protein.

How much sugar is in each bar? in grams?

The Soylent drink is silly. Easy, shelf-stable food is not hard to acquire. For a good meal mix the following into a drink. A no-bake bar recipe shouldn't be too difficult to create either.

[pea protein](https://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Pea-Protein-Pound/dp/B001DB...)

[mct oil](https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-MCT-100%25-Oil/dp/B00KPZXER...)

[hemp hearts](https://www.amazon.com/Manitoba-Harvest-Hearts-Shelled-natur...)

[peanut butter](https://www.amazon.com/Peanut-Butter-Pure-Pure-Fresh-Ground/...)

[banana](https://www.amazon.com/produce-aisle-mburring-Bananas-bunch/...)

Take a vitamin separately:

[vitamin](https://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Light-Active-Multivitamin-Tab...)

Is this your recipe? Would be interested in the instructions.

A scope of pea protein, three tablespoons of hemp hearts, a tablespoon of mct oil, a tablespoon of peanut butter, a banana. This works out to about 500 to 600 calories, 45 grams of fat and 45 grams of protein. The carbs (banana) is about 27 grams and the sugar is about 15 grams. Skip the banana if you want to save the carbs for other foods.

Blend it with water if you have a blender, but if you don't just mash the banana before peeling it and squeeze the puree into a glass. The rest can be mixed with a spoon. Add a little water on the last sip to get the dregs

What are the ratios?

This reminds me of the infamous Dropbox comment

(See the second comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 )

Except that Dropbox is better than a series of scripts. Soylent is not. Soylent suffers from being something less than the sum of its parts. It is undesirable

You're missing my point. Yea, you could take the time to choose the right formula, find all the right ingredients, buy them, measure the right amounts, mix them, remember to buy more of each when they run out, etc. OR you could just have cases of it automatically shipped to your door each month.

I agree with the "something less than the sum of its parts" sentiment for the original Soylent, but Soylent 2.0 is vastly better, and I hear Coffiest is actually good tasting.

The point of Soylent is that not only do you not have to "make" anything, you also don't have to shop for things like fresh bananas. You also don't have to clean. Planning is minimal (order more Soylent when you run low).

I've yet to find as low friction sustenance as Soylent. It's the first food I can have without disrupting whatever activity I'm doing.

Oh, yes, those shelf stable bananas....

Or I could take one scoop soylent, two scoops water, mix.

Se how much less shopping was involved in my list?

Even easier, just add 1 cup of Fairlife Whole Milk to two scoops of a whey protein isolate protein powder(such as Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard) and mix. The macros are way better than Soylent(less carbs, more protein) and it tastes way better. Also no soy if you care about that.

Increases animal suffering and environmental impact. It matters to some people

I thought of Make Room! Make Room! / Soylent Green when I saw the title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_Room!_Make_Room!

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