Ask HN: What makes you happy? What is your American Dream? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: What makes you happy? What is your American Dream?

I am working on a documentary on the "new" pursuit of happiness. The "old" pursuit of happiness and the American Dream seem to have gotten tangled in money and possessions, but there seems to be some movement toward a non-material, or less material, pursuit of happiness (i.e. The Small House Movement, downshifting, Slow Movement, neo-homesteaders, etc.)

No one really created The American Dream, but we inherited a national charter that promised us "inalienable rights" that included happiness. Somewhere along the line the American Dream has become associated with "a consumeristic nightmare" (to quote Vanity Fair writer David Camp http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/04/american-dream200904 ).

But there are some- my husband being one- who would argue we're at a moment of change. Given the world's economic crisis, a heightened awareness of our earth, and a new post Baby Boom generation making their mark, have our national goals for happiness begun to change? Or at least for some people?

Since the HN audience is significantly ahead of the curve, and honest about what they like and strive for, I want to ask: what makes you happy? In the short-term (day to day stuff). And longer-term: what do you aim for in your own personal pursuit of happiness? How much of what makes you happy and what you wish can be bought?

I'm also looking for people who might be interested in becoming part of my documentary project. Or at least interested in being interviewed about your thoughts on happiness or how you live via video chat. For an idea of the format, see video I just shot with a Belgian friend on her happiness list: http://faircompanies.com/videos/view/why-we-all-need-a-happiness-list/ (I will be adding more soon with video she is shooting with her handicam and emailing me via yousendit.com; I would love to have others follow suit if anyone is interested in showing off their town/home/garden/stuff/lack-of-stuff, etc).

And to get a better idea of what I'm talking about with these new American Dreamers, see my video start to the documentary http://faircompanies.com/videos/view/call-for-submissions-for-documentary-on-pursuit-happiness/

Either comment here, or you can email me directly at kirstendirksen@faircompanies.com

Thanks.

View on HN

You cannot be happy due to biological reasons. Happiness is a transient state, a peak, like an orgasm.

Knowing that, pursuing happiness is akin to pursuing highs: a futile endeavor.

You can only be comfortable. Financial comfort, emotional comfort, physical comfort. However, comfort makes you weak. Avoid it.

The rest is bullshit. Consumerism & earth saving crap have NOTHING to do with happiness. Just brainwashing. Avoid that too.

However, considering your field of interest and how you formulated the question, I venture to guess that is the main substance you work with. You came here not looking for answers, but just for affirmations of the things you are already thinking.

Using capital letters is similar to screaming, according to conventions understood by everyone.

I'd like to see some data on your statements here. It sounds a bit dogmatic, to say something is dogmatic without actually rebate it with ideas and data.

Wow. I hate to think I am just looking for affirmations. Maybe you're partly right since making a documentary (or just a long-format video or print project) involves taking an angle. I think I chose my angle simply because we do have a website focused on "sustainability" (though this a complicated term and doesn't mean we just fall in step with whatever "green" issues are popular.)

Over the past few years we've simply begun to hear more and more people talk about how the lifestyle they've chosen- often for environmental reasons, but other times not- is something that has made them happier. Maybe happier because they're freer from debt or from clutter or because they've learned new skills that made them feel more connected.

Happiness is an overly simple word for a very complex idea, but it's the best we've got to describe both our search for both short- and long-term comfort and satisfaction.

I'm curious. Why such a violent reaction to the post? We can avoid the word happiness, but what is it you strive for in life, both short and long-term? What do you like?

One more point, I'm not out to say that there is only one route to happiness- and that it is an anti-consumeristic one-, but simply that it is possible- and possibly more common these days (given circumstances)- to choose this path.

This is simply a bit of counterbalance to so much television that sells the opposite stance. I know that on some of the tv shows I've worked on, I've been complicit in spreading this idea that stuff is cool. So perhaps this is my more personal response.

I don't mean to be rude but I agree with nickpp's comment. I don't know what the research says about this but I have observed that people say they feel "happy" when they experience any kind of big change in their life. One goes from being a materialistic junkie to a greenpeace activist; another goes from being a treehugger to a money-crazy serial entrepreneur. Both feel released from their old identities.

People crave change at some basic biochemical level and that's what makes them "happy".

I would agree with you that to a certain extent people crave roles that can give them an identity, like that of treehugger or entrepreneur. But I also think there are people who genuinely happy with either one: like many of the people posting comments here, I think genuinely want to start companies because they enjoy the thrill of starting something, not just to be an entrepreneur or company president.

The same goes for those who choose to embrace a more simplified lifestyle or whatever related to sustainability.

I'll agree with nickpp to a point: that happiness is transient, and that one cannot appreciate happiness without having suffered (however much or little - it's all relative, it's all in your head).

Having dabbled in Zen Buddhism, I don't like the thesis that life is suffering and to escape it we need to do away with want. If you want to be an emotionless zombie, sure, to each their own. But I now think that this tendency to deign "happiness = good; sadness = bad" and MINIMAX our lives is a huge disservice to our humanity. Hey, we're humans trying to make sense of a senseless world, and we're all on this crazy ride together. I'd rather collect experiences - happy AND sad - to remind myself that I'm alive, that I'm an emotional being, and so that I can appreciate others' experiences as well.

I'm much more fond of this take on happiness:

"The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven? And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?" -Kahlil Gibran

My husband would agree with you that happiness doesn't need to always be the end goal. I must have been raised with a Disney reality. Though I've realized I do need the sad; it's what helps me to think in a more complete way.

My dream is not caring about things I don't want to care, to have friends and family around me, to live with the woman I love, to eat well, to sleep as I want, to have good sex, to live near the sea, to be in health, to die satisfied of life.

You paint a nice picture. How much of this have you accomplished? Obviously, you can't answer re: the last point, but, do you live near the sea? Is eating well a bigger focus for you than working long hours? Etc.

Well I'm trying to accomplish many of this things. I live near my son and managed to stay in Sicily even if with my work it was hard. I'm finally working at Redis full time, so I'm avoiding doing things I don't care, at least in the work side. Now I live with my woman, this was very hard and took two years of sacrifices where she was in Florence. I only live three months every year near to the sea, in the rest of the year I've to live at 15 Km from the sea, at 800 meters of altitude in the vulcano Etna.

Good point about working long hours. Unfortunately currently I'm working too much, but fortunately I'm working too much spending my time in things I like a lot. I need just to adjust how many hours I work every week :)

One thing that makes me happy and I noticed that works with many people I know is to go out for the two days of the week end, without bringing with me my laptop, so that I'm sure I'll enjoy other things.

Thanks for asking, this is a good exercise to do: what makes you happy? and what you still need to accomplish in order to be happy? It's better to fix what's wrong asap as life is wonderful but not infinite :)

Wow. Your life sounds like something out of a movie. Living near the sea, a volcano... finally living near the woman you love (despite sacrifices) and near your son.

It definitely sounds as if you have your priorities in a good place: the people in your life, working on only work you enjoy, creating environments that make you happy (physically and otherwise). Do you think you are common amongst the people you know? How much are you a product of your environment? i.e. Your family, Sicily (I assume this is home), programming community (I assume that's what you do for Redis).

Actually, given how colorful your life sounds, I would love to see more on video. Would you be interested in a Skype chat, and even shooting a bit of video with some sort of handicam, or whatever you have (still photos even)? It doesn't have to be now, but something to consider.

I'm glad you enjoy the exercise. I find it impossible to be happy without thinking about it once in awhile.

I like the idea of walking away from your laptop for a couple days every week. I do that for most of Sunday when we visit my in-laws, but if it weren't for that day I'd find it difficult to avoid.

James Truslow Adams coined the phrase "American Dream" in his 1931 book Epic of America:

"The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for every man, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position."

The American Dream has never been about someone owning a car or house or even being happy, its the simple idea that in a society based on equality guys who drop out of college can go on to form some of the most important and most valuable companies in the world.

My "American Dream" is to be free to do the following things as often, and in whatever proportions, that I please:

* Learn and improve myself

* Contribute to and improve the world around me

* Spend time with friends, loved ones, and interesting people

* Travel the world, because the three prior goals: self-improvement, world-improvement and socializing; seem to be different everywhere we go, and I think the variety would be enlightening in many ways.

I view this as a goal that will be achieved gradually, rather than in one fell swoop. While I still have a 9-to-5 job, I make time to improve myself--physically and mentally--by reading, drawing, fencing, and lifting weights. I endeavor to contribute to my surroundings by volunteering when I can, and always lending an ear to someone who needs to be listened to. I use the money from my 9-to-5 to pay for gas and plane tickets so I may visit friends and they may visit me.

My financial goals are mostly to get out of debt (I have $30k in student loans; I never carry a credit card balance). I make less than $60k/year and live quite comfortably on it, even paying $600-$1,000/mo. in student loans. In the 2 - 8 year term, I plan to save up a buffer of 1 year's living expenses so I don't need to worry about unemployment. In the longer term, I plan to start some form of business that will generate "passive income" (ugh, I hate that term) to the extent that my living expenses will be taken care of, and I no longer need to concern myself with employment to stay afloat. That will free up massive chunks of my most important asset: time.

In terms of "stuff"... I would eventually like a place where I can have a studio and fitness room, but I endeavor to have as small an amount of "stuff" as possible, as I find clutter exhausting.

I wonder how many of us find clutter exhausting. My husband can't even start his day with too much stuff around the house (on the floor, hanging off chairs... that would be my contribution), but I am able to overlook it a bit more. Though since living with him, I have realized that even I would prefer to live without clutter.

Though somehow so many people can't seem to be able to hop off the stuff treadmill: buying, collecting, storing (I'm amazed at the self storage business in the U.S.) and trashing. I am not saying I'm always immune either. I think partly it's being aware of stuff collection as a problem (even just for your own sanity).

I have been pleased to note that, after moving in with my girlfriend, I have "infected" her with my anti-clutter mindset. I try to live by the general rule of, "If I haven't thought about it in 6 months, it shouldn't be here," and it delighted me the first time I saw her with a box full of old odds-and-ends and explained on her way outside, "I haven't thought about or used any of this in years."

Your note about not being immune to the "stuff treadmill" (great term, btw) rings true to me, too, though. Because of our cultural upbringing, it's incredibly easy to get caught up by the consumerist undertow.

I was inspired by George Carlin's rant on "stuff," which someone transcribed here:

http://www.writers-free-reference.com/funny/story085.htm

It's less endearing without his delivery, but the idea is the same: we get emotionally connected to our stuff, and in many cases, that isn't conducive to removing stress from our lives. I think he also touches on the (somewhat pernicious) assumption that Americans grow up believing, which is the assumption that everyone is "supposed" to want and have a big giant house filled with all kinds of tchotchkes. I may some day own a house, like I said in my OP, but I never want to have so much stuff that I couldn't fit as much at least half of everything that isn't furniture into the back of my station wagon. No specific reason for that particular measure of proportion... it just feels right.

Other than the "6-month rule," I just try to be brutal about every individual object I come in contact with. I try to occasionally remind myself to ask, "How does this thing improve my life and make me happier?" The answer could be as simple as, "Looking at it makes me smile," but if it really doesn't do anything for me, I put it in a box, and--as with before--if I don't think about it for 6 months, it fails the test and I get rid of it.

I would make a similar comment to you as I made above to MrFoof. Maybe because it fits with what feels right for me, but I like your 6-month-rule and your question for every object.

In many ways I think when we get too much stuff the same thing happens that happens to kids when they have too many toys. They seem to lose interest in all of them. So we put most of them away in drawers and pull them out a few at a time. It's as if without all the clutter of lots of toys around our daughter enjoys herself, and the few toys, much more.

I would also repeat my comment to MrFoof that if you're interested in contributing to my documentary, I'd love to see some visuals of your de-cluttered lifestyle.

“Do not have anything in your home that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful” -- William Morris

As of a few years ago those became the words I lived by. I threw out anything that had no sentimental or significant monetary value, and things I thought were ugly or junk. I had very few things left -- all of my furniture was gone except for a chair, a desk and a lamp. Most everything else fit in a trunk. I had exactly a week's worth of clothes. Some cookware, dinnerware and basic kitchen tools. My girlfriend was livid, though honestly I found it a good excuse to break it off with her too.

Now when I look at something, I always ask myself - depending on what it is - how it will be 5 (for non-durables like clothes), 15 or 25 years from now. Would I still want it after that time? If not, there's no way I'd ever buy it.

So when you're an apartment with absolutely nothing, you learn what you can live without, and you develop a deeper appreciation for simple things like chairs. You don't just go buy a new sofa, you lay on every sofa in the city until you find one that looks great, that you'd want to reupholster after 30 years and that you can fall asleep on near instantly. You really examine how your clothes hold up over time because... honestly, you don't any spare shirts or pants around. Simple things like plates... if they're ugly, you'll notice all the more. If you don't have enough, you're not so bombarded by other things you're more aware that you seem to be cleaning them an awful lot. Your place stays clean too. A shirt on the floor in a sea of nothing is very much out of place.

You also don't... buy all that much anymore. I have a bed and nighstands and lamps again. And a dining table, chairs, sofa, coffee table and another lamp or two and my lounge chair... but that's been it aside from 5 or 6 articles of clothing and a pair of shoes in 3 years.

Now I'm sort of at a point - still in my 20s - where there really isn't anything I want to buy anymore. Having been brought up by "gotta-have-this"-trend parents, it's a very peculiar feeling. Almost as if you feel lost.

This response feels poetic to me. Well, that and it made me laugh the way you describe using it as an excuse to break off with your girlfriend.

But there's something that feels so right about living according to a principle seeking things of usefulness or beauty. And I'm very impressed that it truly seems you live this way.

I'd agree I used to shop more to have spare shirts, but now my spare shirts sit unworn and I simply wear the same few shirts over and over so I don't see the point in having the spares.

Any interest in talking more about your downsizing experience and/or videotaping your "stuff"?

I have a few photos, though the place is still VERY sparse. There are still huge chunks of empty space (we're talking 60 to 100 square feet per chunk). The place has 4 closets and an alcove -- I only use 1 1/2 now. The others are completely empty.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30258487&l=cf3ff03... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30632001&l=aeeaed7...

Right now I'm trying to make the mundane pleasing. You know, arrange pots and pans, or bath towels, so it looks nice. Hard to beat $0 interior design ideas.

I guess it stems from growing up as the son of a garbage man with a stay-at-home mom, and despite that, they always seemed to be buying things. When I was 20, I found myself having to send home an awful amount of money to save them from their debt when his job situation took a serious turn for the worse. Everything had seemed fine, until one thing happened - then it unraveled into hell.

I thought about it. We were always out buying something. Sometimes the same thing... again, after a year or two. Before I helped them out I demanded to know their financial situation, and found out how they were sort of skating buy and passing off that things were grand. It never was. We went from a family of clipping coupons and picking change off the ground, to grousing circulars. When I had to help them out again at 25 I told them it was the last time. I also was determined I never suffered the same fate and became trapped by my stuff. "You don't own your things, they end up owning you."

-----

I wanted to live in the city with lots of natural light (Boston, currently). Without a lot of stuff, it was completely reasonable. I then got a job in the city. My commute is trivial. I could also move to NYC in a week if I needed to - packing would only take an afternoon, and a 400sqft apartment would fit everything very comfortably.

Everyone buys cars larger than they need "just in case". I have my two-seat roadster. I couldn't spend car money on an object that brings me no pleasure. I commute on foot now, so I guess I'll keep the car until the chassis needs re-freshening -- another 18 years I figure.

I didn't want debt. I have none. I do use a credit card, but just to abuse the reward points program and spend that on boring stuff like trash bags and detergent.

I hate cleaning. With few things, the place can be obsessively spotless in under 30 minutes a week. No real cleaning + no real commute = a lot more free time. Compared to coworkers, we're talking 10 to 12 hours a week.

I want to plan for the worst. I save 35-40% of my gross pay a year, though that's increasing as non-food/shelter expenses have basically dropped to 0. My salary could be cut in half and I my lifestyle doesn't have to change. I have a hell of a "screw you" fund, or a lot of money I can burn trying to turn an idea into reality.

What freedom to feel you could pack up and move in an afternoon. I love the idea of knowing that is possible, even if it never happens.

Funny how so much of what we have is "just in case": not just space in our cars, but extra clothes, extra linens, extra plates...

The photos of your apartment are great. It looks amazing, not at all like someone trying to "opt out", but something out of a style mag. Though I shouldn't be so surprised as simplicity is an important element to good style, or what I see as that.

Travel is another point I've pondered a lot since I started our website. I used to fly a lot. In most aspects of my life, I can be a pennypincher, but it was the one area that I felt like the experience was worth whatever pricetag. Then I started reading about the carbon emissions of flying (and the emissions of kerosene jet fuel) and I started re-evaluating. So I started to pick my trips more carefully and to try to fly less and stay longer if I could.

While at first it was an environmental consideration, now I'm realizing I'm actually happier without all the moving around. My husband calls it my family's "pack-and-go" mentality. I'm not saying everyone would be happier this way- as I definitely had my share of years exploring the world/my country a bit-, but for now, I like staying in one place a bit more. And the curious thing is, I doubt I would have discovered that if I hadn't thought about carbon footprint stuff. I mean, the "pack-and-go" mentality is a part of my family culture: I live in Spain, my sister lives in Sydney, another sibling lives in the South, another in Seattle, my parents in San Francisco, another is married to a Canadian... it's tough to avoid, but possible to cut down a bit I suppose.

And now that my income is drastically reduced from what it used to be, flying really isn't an option like it used to be either. So I am grateful that I don't feel the need to move about like I used to. Though, that's not to say, I don't fly. I live abroad so every year we take one trip home. And that in itself is more than the majority of people. So all I can say is I've reduced my moving about, just a bit, and am happier for it. For now.

I think that our needs naturally change and shift over time. When you did your travelling, you probably found it quite fulfilling (I could be wrong). Maybe you would never have gotten to this point, which you find even more fulfilling, without doing the travelling first!

Also, for what it's worth, when I referred to travelling, I had more short vacation-like trips in mind, as opposed to extended relocations or migrations for years at a time. I would never argue that such bite-sized travels could let someone sample variety in the way that a long-term immersion would, but it would still be a real learning experience.

Interesting point about the carbon emissions... I never really thought about what a technological indulgence air travel is. I suppose that when my social circle splintered and moved all over the place, I felt entitled to see everyone as often as possible, but maybe conquering the distance costs more than just the price of a few plane tickets.

My dream is for my existence to make a positive change in the world. Be it by starting a company that helps people in some way, or by simply helping that old lady cross the road.

I haven't figured out how to do this on a large scale yet, but I will someday. I challenge all of HN to do the same.

Nice goal. It definitely sounds like an alternative American Dream to that of the Gatsby variety. Wealth and things are obviously not your end goal, but what about personal lifestyle choices: is stuff important? or any particular stuff, things that you own? (your home, a big home, etc).

Stuff isn't particularly important to me. I like having a nice laptop (but that's mostly so I can work effectively). Probably the most important thing in this area would be experiencing new things by travelling the world (and sharing in these adventures with my fiance).

I wonder if having a dream of positive change more likely implies wanting a laptop to a large home. Do you think your goal of changing the world is shared by your peers? Do you see things changing in that respect, a move (however slight) from materialistic goals to a make-your-mark attitude?

Let me elaborate. I have a nice laptop because I need one to do my job effectively. Want isn't actually the correct word. I have some desire for materialistic things (as most do), but I don't see them as things that define my life.

I believe that most of the people here on HN would like to "make their mark". Starting a company is one way to do so.

As far as things moving away from materialism, I doubt it. I feel that as we get older we learn to value the less material things. Look at the nearest teenager and you'll see what I mean (or even look back at yourself as a teenager).

This is all dependent on where you're from too. The US is extremely materialistic. Historically, what you own is a measure of how successful you are(Or how big of a mark you've left). The metric for rating the size of your mark needs to change before we can even begin to move away from materialism.

I am very curious as to your last point: "The metric for rating the size of your mark needs to change before we can even begin to move away from materialism". I think you're onto something as studies show that it's not how much money we make that affects our happiness as what those around us have. So it seems our tendency to compare ourselves to others is an important point here.

What do you see as the metric for rating the size of our mark currently? Our toys: home, car, etc.? Do you have any vision of what it could change to? Are there any elements of a Green New Deal, or even a Green American Dream that could come into play?

Since we tend to compare ourselves to others, if in at least some communities, the idea that it's not cool to just want stuff takes off, then can this attitude become infectious for the rest of the country?

I see small things changing in small pockets of the U.S. Like my sister lives in Seattle and I was talking about green cleaning companies and she said "Who doesn't clean with green cleaning products these days?". In her community, at least (not necessarily all of Seattle), that is what she sees so it's become her norm. A small example.

Currently, I think others rate us on the things we own (cars, houses, businesses, etc). Ideally, people should judge us by the content of our character rather than the material things we own or have earned. I don't know how the American Dream is going to change, but it's different for everybody. People will always be driven by the need to earn and accomplish.

America is a capitalist society, so the next "American Dream" will probably have some quantifiable aspect to it (ex. "How many people did you save?", "How many vaccines did you purchase for children in Africa?"). That's just a thought though.

I'm sure the idea of not wanting stuff could take off, but people like convenience, and more over, people like stuff, and will probably be unwilling to give it up.

As far as your example goes, I think the "Green" thing is just a trend. A good trend, but probably still a trend. People are capitalizing off it all the time. For instance, credit card companies probably don't care about saving trees. But since you go paperless, they get to call it "Green", and then also save a ton of money in the process.

"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about." - Albert Einstein

I think there are some people who can only find happiness in always striving for something. Sort of like an explorer - he does not explore to find a better place to live in, he explores because it's the exploration that is what makes him happy.

So for the people for whom the search is happiness, it will look from the outside like they are never satisfied, but they were satisfied already when they went from nothing to almost nothing.

I would agree that part of the enjoyment of life is continually striving, or growing. For me, that exploration is less physical and more intellectual/emotional. And maybe I'm biased, or hitting this point too hard, but I would again argue that those who search for a better place to live in physically (a bigger house, etc) will be less satisfied than one who strives for a better place emotionally/intellectually.

"There is no way to happiness; happiness is the way"

What makes me happy, short term:

  - Laughing with my son (12 years old).
  - Seeing my son happy and positive.
  - Being "in flow," engrossed in a task and making progress.

Long term goals:

  - To see my son's independent life unfold in a positive direction.
  - Making a secure living, however and wherever I choose.
  - Being secure after I choose not to work (or can't work).

I like that term being "in flow". I used to hear the term being "in the zone" when I played tennis as a kid. One coach told me I needed to "be the ball" (I'm guessing this is variation on some Buddhist all is one motif). Though I never achieved that state as I never really liked tennis. I wonder if one type of happiness is finding that activity you enjoy enough so be able- eventually- to be "in flow" or "in the zone".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

Good post - my son is 11 and I have very similar feelings.

I wrote about something similar on my blog a few months back after realizing that persuit of money for the sake of money is dangerous.

http://pathdependent.com/2009/11/11/money_isnt_everything/

Also, to be precise, our "inherited national charter" made no promise of happiness, merely the pursuit of it.

I enjoyed your blog. Though I'm curious about one of your final comments: "To be clear, I still want a bank-vault sized pile of money but I have accurately recognized why I want it. I don’t really care about a big house and a fancy car. I might someday; I don’t right now. My cramped apartment is sufficient. What I really want is the financial freedom to sit in a quiet room by myself and explore my ideas".

Do you really think you need the money for that freedom? Don't you think if you work at what you enjoy than you can find enough money to pay for your "cramped apartment"? It doesn't sound like you're averse to working, and I'm guessing there is some work that you'd enjoy that would pay for your basic expenses.

I say this because I had a similar idea as you while in college (and I also had read Rand and loved the Fountainhead). So I studied economics and thought I'd do some business thing for awhile to make enough money to be free to do whatever I wanted to do. But then as I saw the jobs that were open to me, I realized I didn't really want any of them. And then as I began to explore careers, I began to talk to more people who chose to work for money and never really got away from that (and some of these people were getting ready to retire) and I realized my plan could be dangerous.

I started thinking about how short life was and decided to just go for something that interested me. So I decided to find a career where I could interview people. I tried to get a magazine internship, but couldn't find anything. Then someone told me about a television internship open at the local NBC affiliate. I applied and spent the next 7 years at that station (after working for 8 months for free, living at home and doing odd jobs on the side).

Maybe I just got lucky, but I am relieved that I didn't stick with my initial plan to make tons of money and then do what I wanted. Now I love what I do and for awhile, made some good money at it. Though I've since voluntarily downshifted to live in Spain with someone I love and be at home more with my young daughters.

I think financial freedom is best achieved with a balanced combination of "spending less than you earn" and "earning more than you spend."

Personal finance expert Ramit Sethi has a lot to say on this subject; he leans more towards the "earn more than you spend" approach, but he focuses on brutally cutting spending on anything that doesn't really make you happy.

One of Ramit's favorite rants is to criticize people who encourage budding savers to avoid spending money on "lattes" (in Ramit's rants, it's always lattes). The way Ramit sees it: if lattes, or expensive cars, or Fabergé eggs make you happy, there is no reason not to spend money on it--as long as you have your other vital expenses, which includes savings, taken care of first.

I think that's the biggest takeaway from the "spend less than you earn" approach: lots of people buy expensive cars or big houses because they think it's what they want, or because they assume it is what they're "supposed" to have or want, but closer examination would probably show that often, enough is enough, and more is too much.

Funny about the lattes. I am probably complicit in that criticism, but maybe because I'm usually happier spending my $100/month (depending on how many you buy) making my own tea/coffee and spending that same amount renting movies on itunes.

But to the real point, I think you- and Sethi- are onto something with it being more about figuring out what really makes you happy. If, it turns out, that what makes you happy are big houses and expensive cars or planes (I have an uncle who truly seems happy with all 14 airplanes he owns.. though he's an ex-commercial pilot who usually finds old planes he refurbishes and doesn't mind if they crash land in corn fields.. I witnessed that one) then I can't criticize that.

But I wonder if the majority of us really are happier with more and would be just as happy realizing that "enough is enough" and focusing on things that really make us happy.

As of right now, no, I do not need the money. In fact, I am burning through my savings sitting in a room and exploring ideas right now. When I get low on cash, I'll take a contract job or two. Also, starting in the fall I will be perusing an advanced degree in the field I enjoy.

However, I still want the money because it is project lubricant. Some projects I am interested in require many people, full-time.

Here we favor:

* have good time together as a family and as a couple

* work on things that make sense (useful end-goal + way of work that makes sense)

* intellectual open-ness (learn useful things etc)

* financial independence as much as possible (along the lines of http://evolvingworker.com/2010/2/3/alternate-wealth)

We (my wife and I) don't care much about having a lot of money (although we appreciate jaguars and classy houses, if we could afford them), but we care a lot more about our freedom.

We've been reducing expenses to ensure we're able to go live in the country side of France next month, as well :)

Hope this helps, and nice topic!

I don't think what would make me happy is all that different from the traditional American dream. I want to be wealthy enough so I can provide well for my current and future family - I don't want my parents, my wife, or my children to want for anything. I want the freedom and time to be able to teach my children my own values, without interference from others. I want both the ability and the right to defend what's mine, what I've achieved, and the people who are important to me from outside threats. I want stability in the outside world, so that the likelihood of these outside threats are minimized. I want to grow old beside the woman I love, surrounded by my descendants. Beyond that, I want to be left alone.

The purchase of material things are an important aspect of this dream - it's not at all a 'consumeristic nightmare' to want to provide well for your family.

Today, I'm happiest when I'm spending time with my girlfriend, my family, or a few good friends, enjoying good food or a good beer. I'm also pretty happy when I'm doing something intellectually stimulating and lucrative. I'm delighted that over the past few years I've gone from paycheck-to-paycheck to quite comfortable, and as an immigrant to America I do feel that I've been living the American dream.

In the long term I do want to own my own business. Don't care about making millions: as long as I can pay the mortgage and afford good food, upkeep the house, keep the kids fed & clothed, I'll be happy.

In the short term I focus on making the most of what I have right now. Like you said, it's easy to get suckered into "I'll make a ton of money right now so I can relax later" but later never comes! Much like it's easier to fix your own faults instead of blaming others, I find it's easier to make the most of the present instead of pipedreaming the future. You can still plan for the future: just remember that live turns on a dime.

As far as your comments about the Maker movement: I have always loved to make things and I was really perplexed that it's now a "movement." I've been reading magazines about crafts, boatbuilding, metalworking etc. and been surrounded by people making things for so many years that I guess I just assumed there were Makers all around us :-) I wonder if the "movement" is really just among knowledge workers who weren't aware just how many of us still actually create with our hands?

satisfying my needs is happiness. simplify: skip the bars and the drama, ditch the time-sucking girlfriends – and the time-sucking guys, too, quit the day job, learn to cook "peasant food" from every part of the world. within two months of making the above changes, i went from spending to saving, eating better, coding better, and playing better.

Then there are some seasonal things that increase my joy:

Winter through spring * average five hours of snowboarding a day * average five hours of programming a day

Summer through fall * average five hours of surfing, kayaking, hiking, and/or fishing a day * average five hours of programming a day

I try to block my days into ten hours of activity. Figure eight hours of sleep a night, that leaves me with six hours I can spend however I want. Some of that gets used up getting to snow and surf spots, or (blech) on-site, but a lot of it is spent doing small things that lead to happiness: such as yard work, house cleaning, chatting with neighbors, teaching my old dog new tricks, strolling, making music alone or with others.

Hi Kirsten,

Two recommendations. 1. Use https://www.dropbox.com/ to share the files. 2. Put some contact information in your profile :)

My dreams are pretty small for the time being. I want to build most, if not all, of the furniture in my new house. I want to explore the American wilderness before it ceases to exist.

I'm going to advertise for Michigan here. If you'd like to explore some wilderness, I recommend checking out Isle Royale. It's in the middle of Lake Superior, and doesn't really have any settlements on it.

Good luck on your journeys!

Thanks. I was wondering about the files issue. And I just added some contact information.

Do you have any experience building furniture or is this going to be a learning experience? I wonder about how the growing DIY movement (at least online) is affecting our happiness. Is there something innately satisfying about making things?

I get a huge amount of satisfaction making things that serve functional needs. It's an object I can point to and say "I built that." Even better is when an individual can't determine the make, and enquires about how much I spent/where it was made.

My first decently large, and thus far only major, piece of furniture is a cat treehouse my girlfriend and I built for my cat. I was disgusted by the price and the poor construction quality of the pieces sold in pet stores, and I didn't want to pay shipping for something better.

So, I looked at the design, figured out what I would need and went at it. It took about a day using the university shop, and I was thrilled to bring it home and watch my cat jump on, claw at, and sleep on it.

I can imagine it's much more satisfying enjoying, or watching someone or something, enjoy something you've made than something you've bought.

I'm curious how your venture beyond a cat treehouse goes. Would love to hear/see more about your experience making your own furniture.

I have many dreams, not one specific goal has determined what I do in my life. It's a juggling act though, to work hard so some of them become reality, and hope that other people will take on the rest of my dreams (because I also know I won't be able to do it all myself). Regarding American Dreams, as an immigrant to this country, strangely I have none. I have learned so much while living here, I think that is an undeserving gift to me. My american dream is that America can evolve and find new ways to prosper, innovate while never forgetting the real reasons their founders fought for. The same way, many things can make me happy:just seeing a sunset or a sunrise or just the clear clouds after rainy days or seeing that my cousins learned something after a turbulent programming class.

In order of importance:

- have a great family with someone awesome

- financial independence so I can take my family great places and pursue my own projects (several million or more would be great; see next point)

- spend any "fortune" I get on fixing some specific problem(s) in the world

I suspect quite a few people have a rough variation on this.

This is almost mine verbatim. However, I feel fortunate to have achieved #1 (I have a fiance and a 9-yr old son). I'm working on #2 with my business. Hopefully after I complete #2, I can then do #3! It's been a great adventure so far and I consider myself to be very successful (not monetary, but in level of happiness) up to this point.

I have no idea.

What will make me happy is to realize what I actually want.

To become financially independent so I have time to change the world for the better.

I had plans to retire at 45. Today, I want to have sufficient financial independence to be able to choose what I work on.

Love, family and friends are now more important than they used to be.

I think happinies isn't "a dream", its a state of mind. You can either be happy or not, you can't plan for that or even understand the required elements of it.

Freedom to explore the world and do what I want. Wanting to solve problems for other other people. Have a family.

I can't answer that question. I live in SC and haven't registered. j/k

FREEDOM - having the ability to do whatever I want, whenever I want.

for me happiness is:

- health for those around me and myself

- the ability to create

- music

- the freedom to travel and meet new people

I'll follow up with you on this by email, probably tomorrow night when I have time, but I think the quest for money is based on 5 stages:

1. Basic needs: food, housing, essential security, and the ability to procreate (which means the ability to afford housing in which it's possible to raise children, and to pay for their education).

2. Leisure: books, music, sports, travel, sexuality, the freedom to choose more interesting work.

3. Comfort and time: maids, doormen, business-class air travel, professional autonomy, and other provisions to make life a lot less annoying.

4. Social status: expensive art, trophy real estate, invitations to (and the ability to throw) ridiculous parties, five-star hotels, private jets, AmEx black cards.

5. Power: this is the level of the rich people who have no strong political drive but run for political office (Forbes, and to a lesser extent Romney) or otherwise strive for influence.

I differentiate the last two levels because the 5th is usually observed in billionaires who don't have to answer to anyone, nor to prove themselves, so they tend not to care about social status per se (it comes to them) but still strive for high levels of power and influence.

Achieving #1 is so difficult in our society (due to the outrageous prices of housing anywhere worth living, plus healthcare and education) that a lot of people bypass it and shoot for #2; this is the "hipster" movement-- young people who are rich at level 2 but poor at level 1 (because it's impossible for them to achieve security). It's relatively easy to be happy on a low income if you don't plan on having kids and actually can, unlike most people who are just aping a cliche, "live in the moment" instead of worrying about healthcare, family (in the future) and retirement. Whether this is reckless or enlightened is a matter of opinion.

Money is happiness-producing at levels 1, 2, and most of 3. Where people get tied up and end up miserable, despite ridiculous levels of wealth and income, is when they end up chasing #4-5. These concerns can easily lead to overspending, "golden handcuffs", professional unhappiness, and general malaise, because it's not straightforward to "buy" social status, as nouveaux tend to find out the hard way. When people have their basic needs taken care of and choose to focus on social status in a major way, they become childlike.

However, what we take for granted, as elite technologists, is the possibility of filling out levels 1-3 (basics, leisure, comfort) without having to muck around in the bottomless need pit of #4 (social status). Except for very smart technologists and entrepreneurs, it's literally impossible to reach an income sufficient for level 3 (~100-400k, depending on geography and family size) without getting involved in the social status lemon party. We're lucky in that we don't have to.

Interesting.

Another (comparable but slightly different) classification has been proposed by A. Maslow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

What is quite tricky is that you can achieve the high levels of the pyramid but still have trouble being ok with the first levels.

Life is a game. The objective of the game is to make money. The person who has the most money when he dies, wins.

Life is a game. If the objective of the game is to make money, the person who has the most money when he dies, wins.

Life is a game. The objective is to decide what your own objective is. Any person who completed his or her own objective before they die, wins.

Yes exactly. I would put it similarly, "Life is a game. The objective is to design and implement your own game. Whoever dies playing closest to their own rules wins."

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