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Comment by Nursie | Hacker News Reader

Serious question in comedy thread time -

Does anyone know of another keyboard that's as comfortable and all-round wonderful to use as the Model M, but quiet?

Cherry MX brown keyswitches are they usual recommendation for tactility + quietness, but the tactility is pretty subtle, no comparison to a Model M. I've heard several recommendations for Matias Quiet Click keyswitches [0] as having much more satisfying clickiness while being very quiet, but sadly haven't yet been able to try them yet.

Strictly those aren't exactly "keyboard" recommendations, but as well as selling keyboards Matias also sell the switches separately, so you can get a keyboard base to your preferences and solder keyswitches of your choice to it yourself, typically on a group-buy site like Massdrop. Eg I'm currently waiting for the Ergodox infinity drop[1] (split, non-staggered, open-source hardware and firmware, reprogrammable), but there are a bunch of more conventional keyboards available with a choice of keyswitches as well.

[0] http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/

[1] https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox

To run down the switches (that provide physical feedback).

-MX Cherry Blues: Their action has the same feel of a Model M (kind of) they only require ~1/2 the force to switch as a Model M. Their sound is also quieter (then a model M) they're still much louder then a rubber dome. It has a higher pitch clip/clop rather then the Model M's thunk.

-MX Cherry Greens: A stiffer blue (commonly used for space bars).

-MX Cherry Browns: Same action as a blue, but rubber dampened to be quieter actually inline with a rubber dome. They still provide the physical feedback of a Blue.

-MX Cherry Clear: A stiffer brown.

-MX Cherry Whites: Somewhere between a Brown and a Blue in sound and force. They still provide feedback.

MX browns have a completely different mechanism than blues- there isn't rubber in there, it works like this[1] and blue works like this.[2]

[1]http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Br...

[2]http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Bl...

I was speaking of the feel of the action. The brown still has the physical bump caused by the outward swing on the guide arm much like the blue.

There isn't the extra chunk of free riding plastic that helps generate a lower sound tho. I was purely wrong the rubber wrapping, that was just me being ill-informed.

I think there's a pretty distinct difference in feeling though- once a blue switch clicks, you don't get any more tactile feedback from the switch because the part that gets feedback is sitting on the bottom, but with browns it's still rubbing up against the contacts- which leads to browns feeling a bit mushier after the click.

Mind you, if you're in a noise sensitive environment then browns are definitely what you want.

Well the blue switch breaks meaning the force required to depress the switch changes. But this break occurs after the switch is triggered. This break is also when the sound is generated. Which again, after the key is triggered.

Buckling Springs is the only switch where the break, sound, and switch engage all happen in the same instant ,by the same mechanism (the spring buckling).

I really enjoy the original Apple Extended Keyboard II. I'll be honest that I haven't used an actual Model M, but it's got a wonderful feel and not so horribly loud that you'll disrupt the world.

Unfortunately I've found that I hit the key rollover limit while typing certain words. For the past year I've been using one of these: https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,te... — and while not perfect, I really do enjoy it.

Apple Extended Keyboard 2's varied a lot, I had a few and some were a lot better than others. Their ADB sockets were also pretty sensitive, and then USB/ADB adapters got real flakey.

Then I moved to the Model M, and the AEK2s gathered dust in the garage after that.

(At one point, I had a Dell monitor, Microsoft Mouse, and IBM keyboard connected to a Graphite G4 tower.)

I think those have Alps key switches. I liked Apple's ADB keyboards as well, and I kept one even after moving a few times, in the hope that I could use it again some day.

I wonder if I could find a USB adapter for one. Microchip actually has an application note on talking ADB with a PIC, and there's probably an Inside Macintosh book on the subject, so if it came to it I think I could make one.

That doesn't seem possible. A good part of the MM's ergonomics are the force feedback, and the physical click as the spring buckles. You really can't get anything like that without a click of some kind.

I've seen those quiet Cherry MX switches: they just go all the way down, no force feedback at all. Honestly, I'd say they're worse than dome keyboards.

The quiet switches you talk about are probably linear, they indeed go all the way down without any feedback. There is also a middle ground - MX Brown and MX Clear - they have some tactile feedback but without the click. They're not ideal though and some people refer to them as "scratchy". Here's a handy comparison of all Cherry MX and some other Cherry switches:

https://i.imgur.com/a4HY9.jpg

Yep. MX Red. I don't know why they're so popular. They're absolutely awful.

They're most popular among gamers, since they activate really high on the travel, and are easy to spam. I've typed with them, and you don't really need the feedback, since they activate pretty much the moment you start pressing them down.

Of course, that's a double-edged sword, since I've also activated them while just resting my fingers on the keyboard just a bit too hard.

There are a lot of mechanical keyboards out there with a similar heft as the Model M. The trick is the switches. I like the Cherry red switches, which are quiet. Cherry blue switches are clicky like the old model M.

Comparison between the switches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp46JeDDTCw

Yeah, as a Model M user, I hate the Red. It has no feedback: worse than a dome keyboard.

I can see the appeal for gaming, but not so much for typing... imho nothing works as smoothly as a model m as long as you aren't bottoming out, you can actually type pretty lightly, relatively speaking...

I don't even see the appeal for gaming: Maybe at insane skill levels, but even on a Model M, the keypress time is a fraction of your response time, maybe ~10ms at worst. Although I haven't counted.

Topre key switches aren't bad. They're more expensive than they're likely really worth, but they feel like a cross between a cherry-mx-brown switch and a rubber dome switch. Good feedback, easy on the fingers, and no sound from the switch (it's capacitive, not mechanical).

That said, nothing (silent) quite replicates the action of a buckling spring. MX Blues come close (since they have a piece that "gives" under pressure), but they are not precisely silent (since they have a piece that "gives" under pressure).

Hmm, cool. I've had a read about them since they were mentioned in another post here.

They look prety good and I'd like to try a topre keyboard, but they cost the sort of cash you put down when you know you want them for sure. Will look out for one in a physical shop to try out.

Unicomp does make keyboards in the same form factor as their model M clones, but with rubber domes instead of buckling springs, though they're considered silly. The brandname is 'QuietTouch' or something.

Another serious question. I used to love my Model M but switched to a cheap Fujitsu split keyboard. Anyone have a view on which is the best Model M-alike with a split format?

I have my own office so I don't care how loud it is.

Might not be exactly what you're looking for, but I enjoy using the ErgoDox: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox

I sourced and built my own, but I think the Infinity ErgoDox kit ends up being cheaper than that.

I have an older model of a Das Keyboard:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/

It's lovely and noisy. The clicks augment the joy.

Mk II was a wonderful no-nonsense keyboard. Super light and had PCB-mounted MX Blue switches. Despite a big & plasticy case it felt like a precision tool to me. I wish I had bought a PCB mounted successor instead of a modern plate mounted one.

Bonus Round - anyone know of a good wireless mechanical?

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