Upping the volts will make hybrid cars much cheaper
economist.com
economist.com
Increasing to 24V or 48V means less current for the same load, which means smaller cables for accessory power. Above 30V or so you get into "high voltage" by electrical safety standards.
A 48V electrical system is not going to be driving hybrid vehicles, it is purely to reduce the cost of wiring looms.
UL generally deals with products so that is probably why they are more conservative. Picture a baby sucking on something and you can imagine why they want anything over 20V to be double insulated. If car manufactures want to comply with UL standards that would mean they would no longer be able to use the car's frame for the current return path.
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/lv...
> VOLTAGE is to electricity what pressure is to water: the more you have of it the more oomph you get. That is why electrical power lines work at high voltage.
No. Losses in transmission lines are proportional to current squared [1]. High voltage is used because it results in lower current (for the same power), so lower losses.
Idk, that's how I learned it growing up before I learned about stranded vs solid core wire, skin effect, resistance, etc.
Power delivered by the battery is this equation:
P = I * V
So you can have (1 volt @ 100 amps), or (100 V @ 1 amp) and still get (100 watts). If both are the same, wouldn't the low voltage solution be safer, and more desirable?
Massaging the same equation a little bit, we can model our losses along the power lines. Substituting V = IR you get...
P = (I^2)R
It's difficult to make conductors less resistive without using expensive metals or unconventional techniques (like cryogenically cooled wires). So to cut our losses, we'll go with high voltage, low current.
> VOLTAGE is to electricity what pressure is to water: the more you have of it the more oomph you get.
... or about the claim that follows:
> That is why electrical power lines work at high voltage.
The former sentence (aka the hydraulic analogy, [1]) is a very well-established thing. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's quite reasonable. The latter (high voltage power lines) is demonstrably not correct, as the two of you have pointed out.
Extending your power formula to the hydraulic world and simplifying the calculus to steady-state algebra:
Power = (Volumetric flow rate) * (pressure)
Though, to be fair, the analogy breaks down a little there; the Poiseuille equation [2] (the fluid equivalent of V = IR) involves 6 variables instead of 3. But the point is, you still end up with a final equation of similar form to P = (I^2)R.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_analogy
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagen%E2%80%93Poiseuille_equat...
The absurdly priced Porsche 918 is the only car to date that takes advantage of this technique in an ideal fashion (small batteries, small electric motors augment the engine and brakes).
After that, what about ICE's that run at optimal load/RPM for the highest possible efficiency to charge a smallish electrical system?
Batteries are still a long way off from gasoline in their energy density. Gasoline will never be "clean" but the way we burn it in our existing automotive fleet is horribly inefficient.
There's this beautiful middle ground in the technology that no one is exploring and it's such a shame.
The ICE is connected to the drive shaft via the 'hybrid synergy drive' which is a gear box and electric drive in one. It can drive the vehicle either under electric mode with the ICE off, with both electric and ICE, or in electric mode while the ICE charges the battery.
When you brake it cuts power to the ICE (either just cutting the fuel, or stopping it completely) and charges the battery. There are also normal brake disks if you push the peddle extra hard.
I like it because it's relatively mechanically simple, which means less things can break. The ECU does a lot of work, but try and find a car that doesn't nowadays. Also it only needs electric motors in one place - the rest of the axle and drive system is exactly the same as a normal car.
The only thing really letting it down is the low capacity battery pack, but I guess that's for cost savings. There is also a plug-in version which can do 26 miles on electricity alone. Toyota offer this as an option in most of their cars, even the Rav4 SUV, so I expect in the next 10 years it will become standard across their range.
Here are some good articles explaining how it works with diagrams:
http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/Understanding/PowerSplit...
http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/Understanding/WhatsGoing...
The reason you don't see this kind of system everywhere is most likely cost; these systems cost extra. I have the Mazda system on my car; there's a pricey supercapacitor for storing power, plus a pricey DC-to-DC converter under the driver's seat, plus a special high-voltage alternator, plus a special battery. It improves fuel economy by 1-2mpg, which is the other reason you probably don't see them that much: an extra $500 or more in the new price of a car is a lot for an extra 1-2mpg when gas is $2/gallon and everyone's buying SUVs.
Such systems could be done better, but that's likely going to cost even more; to get a more significant improvement you really need to go full-hybrid with a large traction motor, which of course is going to make the vehicle cost even more. Take a look at the Chevy Volt for a good example of what you can achieve here: it's a serial hybrid with a small gas engine with generator plus a traction motor that actually moves the car. It can go 50+ miles without using any gas, which is pretty cool, but when the gas engine comes on (like for long trips) it can only get fuel economy in the low 40s because of the lossiness in the system. On top of that, having all that hardware in the car (engine, generator, motor, battery pack) limits the useful space, and the cost of the vehicle is rather high. Or you can get a Toyota Prius which is a parallel hybrid (engine drives wheels) and gets much better highway economy, but it can't go very far without burning gas and it's pretty expensive for an economy car with very anemic performance.
I've long wondered about that given so many trains and ships run that way using electrical transmission from the prime mover ("that's what "diesel-electric" is), I know little about the concerns so I must be missing some significant drawback on the scheme given so few hybrids are "series" and most manufacturers go for either parallel or split topologies.
Of note, an other potential advantage of a series hybrid is you can run alternative ICE topologies e.g. with high but very short efficiency bands.
It is only with the most recent emissions standards that the losses from non-optimal RPM is a significant factor and the generator/motor is better.
In ships, gears are used up into the multi-Megawatt range, but there you don't need a clutch and have a lot of space and mass available.
My point is that every single car produced from VW to Ferrari can get 50% better fuel efficiency if the auto manufacturers changed their approach to the problem.
Ok, I am curious why. Is it one specific thing? Is it something fixable (like needs newer generation batteries)?
The volt and pirus are a small aerodynamic cars. They would get in the upper 30mpg range with a traditional power train. On the highway they could get better mpg with the right traditional power train (0-60 times would be in the 20 second range - there are obvious reason nobody does this). That hybrid system is just extra weight once the battery is exhausted so you need a slightly bigger engine to haul it around on pure highway driving.
Don't get me wrong, hybrid makes sense for most people. However it isn't that the system is more efficient for everything, it is that for the way most people [want to] drive it pulls in enough advantages to be worth the negatives.
Priuses (except the first generation Prius and the current Prius C) aren't particulary small; they are midsize sedans.
It's a step in the right direction but is a 5% efficiency gain opposed to a 50% gain.
So, instead of putting the motorcycle engine in as an afterthought take a 1.5l turbo as the primary source of electricity generation.
This is kinda what they did on my new 225xe.
7(?)kWh battery, decent electrical drive, and said 1.5l turbo for if the car needs more power or range.
Under real-world conditions, the battery seems to be good for about 40km of electrical driving in my current temperate climate (where I don't really need cooling or heating).
So far, it's a fun car.
However, I will point out that the i3 REX gets relatively poor fuel economy when running on gas -- only about 40 mpg, nowhere near what a parallel-hybrid Prius can get.
Anyone worried about hacking cars, imagine the nightmare should brakes be completely electric, with no hydraulic or mechanical option should either the power or control system fail.
As for saving weight on cables, smaller metal doesn't mean smaller cables. Higher voltage would require greater shielding, thicker cables. The increased risk of sparks/shorts would also be a thing, as would the risk of electrocuting those working on their cars. With 12v you can get away with stuff that at 48v might put you in hospital.
Now, when you add the cost of the ABS/TC/DSC system module, maybe it works out better, I dunno, but the amount of copper you'd need in 4 separate electric brake motors would be pretty high, so I don't see how they'd be cheap.
The real advantages for a 48V system are weight and size of existing electric systems. Modern cars have a lot of motors, including now the power steering system (run by a motor attached to the steering shaft). These can all be downsized with higher voltage, saving copper ($$$) and weight. There's also smaller motors in the car, like those in the seats, and in luxury cars there's all kinds of motors (for opening and closing doors and liftgates, adjusting the steering, etc.). Finally, the wiring weight can be reduced all over the car, as well as the wiring cost (since again, copper is very expensive). Your statement about shielding is BS: yes, higher-voltage wire needs thicker insulation, but not that much going from 12V to only 48V, and insulation jackets weigh very little compared to the copper inside them. Furthermore, with a reduced diameter of the copper conductor, the diameter of the insulation will also decrease, so the insulation weight will probably be the same, if not a bit less. Besides, I'm pretty sure most wiring used on cars these days can handle hundreds of volts, and is sized not for electrical insulation properties, but instead mechanical properties (they make it thicker and tougher to handle being handled during assembly and repair, and also so it doesn't get worn through from vibration over the car's lifetime). If they actually sized wire insulation for only 12V, the wires in cars would barely have any insulation on them at all.
There's no warning light for the brake fluid reservoir or pressure, even though it would be trivial to add. The oil warning light for passenger vehicles is so useless, when it comes on you have to stop your vehicle immediately. Gasoline gauges are designed to trick people into thinking they're on empty and then provide an extra gallon or two, even though they could actually design the gauge to display average miles based on the rated mileage of the car and size of the tank. Transmission, diff, brake, and engine oil fluids could be measured or at least timed for when they need to be replaced and a warning given to the user that it's time to maintain it. Only in modern [usually expensive] cars do you find tire air pressure sensors.
Why don't we have these basic maintenance and safety systems built into cars? Too expensive? Too technically challenging? Nope - they want you to bring your car into the dealer regularly to regularly charge you for maintenance you may not need.
What deathtrap are you driving? This is a common thing. Even my old 96 Camry has it.
Large vehicles also do not have the same performance envelope and so can generally survive a braking system that suddenly fails "on". A truck+trailer can lock its trailer brakes without, normally, going out of control. So too with a train or even an aircraft on landing. If that happened on a motorcycle, the rider would die. No questions, just death. Cars are somewhere in the middle. Some cars could survive but many would become instantly uncontrollable.
(Remember there are limitations on antilocks in no-power situations. They cannot antilock forever and so will eventually lock up.)
Everything wants to go higher for all manner of reasons, and the semiconductor switches probably don't care all that much. If the jump has to be made, make the jump as far as possible so that the jump doesn't have to be made again.
Is there a safety reason or something?
You lower the current by lowering the voltage.
I assume you meant increasing there.
When you're talking about safety though, the issue is what happens if the voltage gets applied to your body. In that case the relevant formula is I = V/R. R is the resistance of whatever circuit you've mistakenly formed through your body. The higher the voltage applied across that circuit, the higher the current that will flow. (This is also why it's more dangerous if you're wet, or in bare feet, for instance, because those things lower your resistance, resulting in greater current for a given voltage.)
So once the voltage is applied to your body, the higher it is, the more current flows through you
(Some assumptions about source of electricity made)
Current and Voltage are intimately related. 1V with a 1kA capable supply will not hurt you.
Safety is of course a huge component. 48V is about the limit before special isolation and insulation is required.
There actually is an existing sweet spot for 60V FETs, optimized for traditional 48v power systems. I've got to wonder if they're going to use -48v to allow simple driving of N FETs, or if the ubiquity of modern high-side drivers has made that a moot point.
Yes, actually they do. Power MOSFETs are usually in the 30-60V range. When you go higher than that, costs go way up and you generally need to switch to IGBTs. MOSFETs capable of switching 30V loads at extremely high loads (like 100A) are dirt cheap. Power devices capable of switching 100V are not.
This is more a cost cutting measure than a feature. Instead you lose a feature: safety.