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Comment by Amezarak | Hacker News Reader

Which is really unfortunate.

I can't blame Microsoft for it, but the app-gap between WP/WinMo 10 and Android is getting untenable for me. I'm thinking about switching back, not because I think Android is better (I don't think it is at all), but simply because I'm starting to feel left out when all my family and friends are using, e.g., SnapChat to keep in touch and I...can't.

It particularly riles me up that there were perfectly functional third-party Windows Phone Snapchat apps, but Snapchat demanded that they be removed and still (evidently) declined to make a WP app.

Not to pick on Snapchat, it's not an uncommon story.

If I could even just download the Snapchat APK and sideload it on my Windows phone, that'd be enough for me. But I can't, since Astoria got killed.

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There's a couple really good reasons why they can't do that, trademark, PR and user trust.

They need to defend their trademark, or it will be genericized. Not that that's a big deal, but it can be a thing.

More importantly, if the windows store is filled with crappy snapchat apps, it hurts their brand. If they release an update that breaks those apps, it hurts their brand. It's a no-win situation. Then there's hacks of third party apps, that are spun as being Snapchat's problem: http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/01/tech/social-media/snapchat-hac...

Snapchat is in a particularly bad position for the last bit, because what they're selling is fundamentally a lie, and having that lie exposed hurt them a lot.

Can you explain what it is about the operating system that makes a big difference? I have a mix of Android and iOS devices and I really don't have a preference. I never sit down with my tablet to use Android, it's to see the Snapchat my daughter sent me or to play Sequence or to check my email.

Likewise I'll pick up my iPod touch when I want to listen to a podcast, browse Instagram, or use Find My Friends.

There are hardware differences that make me use one device for it's camera or more reliable bluetooth, but I don't really associate that with the operating system.

Do you use a Windows Phone device because of the operating system or because (for example) it has an excellent camera or does something special with your XBox?

Sure. There are a couple things. Some of them may be be pretty petty, and some of them are something you can get in Android but aren't that way out of the box.

- app organization. One swipe and I'm looking at an alphabetized list of apps I can jump to by letter. This is huge to me, so much easier to find and identify an app versus a 2d grid dominated by icons.

- live tiles. My email tile shows me unread emails, photo tile shows pictures, calendar shows appointments, etc. Small thing but makes life a little simpler and makes my home screen look nice.

- settings are organized and laid out in what seems to me to be a much cleaner and logical way. I think this may have regressed some in win 10.

- maps are offline by default. Saves on data and helps out a lot when going through poor signal areas, which I do a lot.

- Cortana is super awesome, ime works better than google now.

- I can deny apps individual permissions.

- OneDrive integration. I didn't use OneDrive prior to buying the phone but since it was auto installed on my win computers i started using it and its very convenient.

A lot of it just all the minor usability and ui struggles just aren't there. To me it's a lot more polished and easy to use. I may have bad taste. :)

- solved by any launcher

- cannot comment

- gmaps handles this automatically

- cannot comment

- baked into android since L

- gdrive

Nearly usability and UI struggles are easily solved with a custom launcher.

- solved by any launcher - solved by any launcher

Then you have never used Windows Phone. None of the Android launchers provides the equivalent of WP tiles with the same amount of integration. There is no API that launchers could use to pull out the same amount/types of information.

- gmaps handles this automatically

Nonsense. It does some prefetching, but if you are in another country (no data) and you go slightly off-route, there is no maps coverage anymore. Luckily, new versions of Google maps allow you to download offline maps ahead of time as well.

For me the reason to switch if I was still on WP is that the app state is so deplorable that even Microsoft's apps on iOS and Android are miles ahead of WP's counter parts.

You should probably look at OSM (eg. OSMAnd, but there are others). I just download the whole country map before I visit somewhere.

I use OSM on my Garmin GPS for hiking/cycling, especially when Garmin's maps for a particular country are overly expensive.

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

HERE maps for android is pretty nice - ar least for traveling in europe there is a very good ui for downloading regional maps and it performs offline routing pretty well.

"There is no API that launchers could use to pull out the same amount/types of information."

What's missing in Android compared to WP in this regard? I have widgets on my Android homescreen that has buttons to activate app functionality (e.g. Audible's 'play' button) and that dynamically update their content. Is there some richer interactor or viewing scheme wp supports?

Interestingly enough, Microsoft actually has an Android Launcher called Arrow. It's not an attempt of bringing the WP experience to Android though.

That said, it's a great launcher and I use it on my Note 4. I still don't fully understand the strategy behind why Microsoft released it though.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft....

Which I didn't deny, prefacing my comment by saying that some of the items I was about to list could be done in Android, but aren't that way out of the box.

Customizability is great, and I think a phone OS should be highly customizable. But I also want it delivered to me in a state where I have to do as little customization as possible. I don't want to fool with it more than I have to.

Can you comment further on google maps doing that automatically? I have not seen it to be the case that I can turn off data, input a destination, and get turn-by-turn directions the whole way.

I am fully aware of Google Drive, but the reason I started using OneDrive is because it is already installed on all my Windows computers; all I had to do was sign in. The same is not true of Google Drive. I take a picture with my WP and by the time I walk over to the computer it's already there, and I didn't have to do anything to set it up.

Also, regarding permissions, no, it was "added" early on, but you couldn't use it without downloading other apps and then without rooting your phone. I think it's supposed to be in Marshmellow for-real-this-time, but I haven't seen it yet.

- maps are offline by default. Saves on data and helps out a lot when going through poor signal areas, which I do a lot.

Note that Here maps with offline maps is also available on iOS and Android:

https://pages.here.com/app/

One drive doesn't sync files the way dropbox or gdrive do and it's super annoying. Cortana is no better than Siri or Now in that it basically just sets a timer or dials a contact and everything else in my experience is chock full of irrelevant links and spamming listings. The one thing I actually appreciate with Windows 10 in particular is that the Weather Live tile is good and doesn't have Accuweather or the Weather Channel banner ads in it. I am glad they went with just giving you with weather. My LG tablet's weather app is a banner ad crapfest and my iPhone's weather app is pretty much useless by comparison. Why can't everyone just show me whether it's going to rain in the next 15 minutes without subjecting me to ludicrous ads. Seriously. Thank you Windows for that at least.

The HTC Sense weather app manages to do that, despite using Accuweather as the data source. There's just a little "Accuweather - more details online" bar at the bottom of the screen, but I've never felt the need to actually follow it.

What do you mean it doesn't sync the files the way they do? Can you explain?

If I take a picture on my phone, it syncs to my laptop and desktop. If I put something on my computer in my OneDrive folder photo folder, it shows up in the photos on my phone.

Well the main problem I had with One Drive, which is why I started using Google Drive and Dropbox exclusively was this issue: https://onedrive.uservoice.com/forums/262982-onedrive/sugges...

You share a folder, update a file and then the other person does not get the update to that file, so then they are sitting there on the phone with you saying "no I don't see the updated file" and you have to have them login to the web version and basically download the file to their one drive. That happened to me several times and I just gave up on One Drive. I don't know if they fixed that. Yes, it syncs things for YOUR folders but it will not sync things to shared folders.

It feels to me that, with the kernel emulation in place, a third party can now step in to provide reasonable Android emulation on top of that. I mean, unless Android uses kernels with some custom syscalls, it should be usable, right? Now it's a question of recreating the userspace on top of that. I would imagine that many pieces would just fall in naturally, while others (most things to do with UI) would probably require rewriting to properly integrate with the Windows desktop... but it's still doable.

But do the potential users on the PC really need anything more than

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueStacks

http://www.androidauthority.com/best-android-emulators-for-p...

They probably don't, but I suspect that using WSL would significantly improve performance. In fact, it's probably one of the existing vendors of products like BlueStacks that will eventually do so.

Honestly I use the app-gap as a feature. Not having the fluff is great because snapchat is making people illiterate. We went from real words to abbreviations to no words and minimal attention span.

On the other hand now that Uber and bank of america have a universal app it feels more complete.

Missing "fluff" is not the problem. The problem is this: When the next killer app comes out, whatever it is, you may want to use it -- but it is very unlikely to be available on Windows Phone.

However, want and need are very different. I may desire an app, but not having it can make me better off. For instance, look here at the selfie deaths:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_selfie-related_injurie...

This may seem ridiculous but that's what these apps are doing to people. :)

Interesting attitude. People kill themselves with toasters too. Would that dissuade you from using one?

Why the downvote? This is a legit and conscious comment

It's unlikely that the absence of snapchat on Windows phone will improve literacy.

Some person doesn't like Snapchat. Their dislike of Snapchat and inability to install it on their phone due to choice of platform has absolutely nothing to do with, and absolutely no influence on what phones other people buy or what apps they install on it.

I have an Android phone and it doesn't have Snapchat on it. I also have friends with varieties of phones, and Snapchat, and they're very intelligent. It's donwvoted because it's a pointless "get off my lawn comment" that says nothing other than "I look down on all Snapchat users".

Are you really trying to defend less choice?

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade!

More like, when life gives you lemons, criticize the intelligence of people who have apples.

Snap chat on android is also horrible.

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