Ask HN: Do employers care how long it took you to finish a degree? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Do employers care how long it took you to finish a degree?

61 pointsJxGZV92 comments

I'm not going to finish my C.S. degree in 4 years, it's going to take me a couple of years more. I'm not able to assist to all lectures and attend all exams because I've been going through a lot of stuff lately, so I haven't been (& am not) able to pass an academic year in a year. My gpa is still good.

I'm worried about being rejected for most applications in the future due to how long it took me to finish and I don't want to come off as whiny or anything in interviews, etc when interviewers ask me (if they do) why it took me so long.

So: Do employers care how long it took you to finish a degree? How important is to employers and interviewers? Is there anything I can do to counteract it?

Thanks.

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Generally, no, employers don't care. When you list your degree just list the graduation date.

Regardless of your work history, you should list internships and projects you accomplished while in school on your resume when you are starting out anyway (unless you were already employed in the field). And if anyone asks specifically, tell them, yea I took a little extra time to finish my degree. Never lie and don't deny it just be straight about it but don't go into personal details.

When you are in college all the pressure and focus is around your GPA, graduating whether you were in the engineering school or A&S school etc. When hiring, those factors are never as important as your ability to sell yourself. For companies that focus on your GPA or how long it took you to get through school, I'd be very critical of whether they are looking for the right candidates and whether I'd want to be there. That said, there are some tech companies that have extremely competitive new grad hiring and so they use school, GPA and degree as a filter, but I've never seen length of time to attain the degree a factor.

Good luck!

They really shouldn't be asking specifically. IANAL and I don't think most age discrimination protections kick in until you're 40, but that kind of question - or asking if you were a "non-traditional" student - seems like a roundabout way of asking someone's age, and is therefore quite unprofessional.

It depends. If someone discloses to me on their resume that it took 8 years to get a bachelors, meaning they put 2000-2008 next to that line item, it's fair for me to ask about it. Besides, professional or not, you want them to ask it if they're inclined to ask it. Not because it's information for them, but because it's information for you. A candidate interviews the company as much as the company interviews them, and from my perspective as a candidate I want to know if these things matter to them and why. For instance, there are qualities I appreciate about non-traditional students - people who started college late, worked full time through, etc. I'm not trying to figure out if you're 45 or not. I'm looking for positive qualities, not trying to shake out the negative. I can distill the negatives when we talk about experience, and those have nothing to do with age or anything else.

Beyond that, when I'm interviewing someone, I know I can't or shouldn't ask certain things, and I don't want to make people uncomfortable or break any laws. So I will often casually mention that I'm married or have a kid if the opportunity arises while we make small talk. I never tie it to a follow up question either, because that's too close to the line for me. But I'm not trying to figure out your situation there either. I'm just putting it out there that I have a life outside of here, that I'm probably going to sneak out (very) early every so often, work from home sometimes to get some other non-work stuff done too, etc. and that I won't hold it against you for being a normal person either.

>Beyond that, when I'm interviewing someone, I know I can't or shouldn't ask certain things, and I don't want to make people uncomfortable or break any laws. So I will often casually mention that I'm married or have a kid if the opportunity arises while we make small talk. I never tie it to a follow up question either, because that's too close to the line for me. But I'm not trying to figure out your situation there either. I'm just putting it out there that I have a life outside of here, that I'm probably going to sneak out (very) early every so often, work from home sometimes to get some other non-work stuff done too, etc. and that I won't hold it against you for being a normal person either.

This is a strange thought process. It's illegal to ask about kids/relationship status and you apparently know that. You just attempt to fish for that information because you want them to know that _you_ personally WFH and have non-work stuff in your life? Why not just describe that work culture? Seems like you are trying to find out if they have kids or a wife, otherwise I don't understand the reasoning.

I'm not sure that I described it well in my post, but I don't try and fish for that information whatsoever. I don't ask any questions related to it, but I'm not shy about my own situation either if it comes up in conversation. These days many people are coached not to really ask about work life balance or to bring up anything that would prevent them from being a 100% dedicated, 24/7 employee, and I think that's pretty shitty. I can't really ask about their needs there in a way that makes me comfortable asking it, so if the conversation goes that way, I'll describe my own situation without any follow up questions.

Every company and every manager out there tries to sell people on their great company culture and work-life balance. I actually have one. I actively cultivate that internally and set team boundaries that promote having a life outside of here. It's important (to me) that candidates know that we actually do what we say we do in terms of work life balance.

> When you list your degree just list the graduation date.

This. I reviewed a ton of resumes, and even when I even noticed that total education time was "non-standard" (rarely), it didn't matter. It's easy as an employer to look at transcript and see if someone is slacking off or has other stuff going on. And the latter is probably a good think in terms of your commitment and drive.

It's reassuring to hear this.

I graduated in 2006, having started my Bachelor in 2000, beca8use it turns out that I have a pretty severe neurological disability. I've had much trouble finding a full-time job (one interview started screaming at me after I explained that I have a disability, but was most impressed with me up until that point) and one of my acquaintances explained that it was because I got a degree.

First, he told me that running mail/web/file servers at home show I can do it and haven't just followed an online tutorial but by doing my degree, anybody could have done my work. Then he explained that the length of time that I took to complete the degree was going to stop anybody hiring me. Later, I was told that it was fair to expect that no employer would hire me, there's no legal restriction preventing them from telling me to get lost because of my disability.

Obviously the first and last were wrong, but this is the first time I've heard an employer actually saying they don't really care how long it took to get the degree.

>(one interview started screaming at me after I explained that I have a disability, but was most impressed with me up until that point)

What the hell? Do you mind going into detail?

Graduating is what counts, not the time it took you to graduate. Stuff happens in life.

Me, it took 7 years to graduate due to severe health issues and family issues, but I kept on going, taking one course at a time in some semesters.

So don't worry about it, in fact, it can be a positive thing. If they know that despite many struggles in life, you kept on going, you'll appear as a go getter.

So don't worry about it, stuff happens in life. Keep on going and graduate, that's what matters the most.

What you need to understand is that employers don't care about anything other than whether you will be a good fit for the position you are applying to. Your CV is just a way to try to assess your skills and character, just like in-person interviews are.

So yes, an employer might take into consideration how long it took your to finish your CS degree but ultimately it likely won't matter much when all the other factors are taken into consideration. It's one tiny factor that may be very important for you right now but doesn't actually provide much useful information to the employer.

EDIT: Just to make my point even clearer: taking slightly longer than expected most likely won't stand out at all. Taking significantly longer may be a negative factor, or it may be a positive factor, but either way it will most likely not be even close to one of the most important factors an employer might consider unless you literally submit a slip of paper with only that piece of info on it.

Nope, it's never occurred to me to ask that as someone who has interviewed hundreds of people in my his career. If you don't put the dates on your resume, it's highly doubtful anyone would ask unless they could infer it from other things on your resume. One would be if you had a career, stopped it to go to school, and then started your career again. And even then, you can or should be able to easily explain it away. But what really matters is what you know.

Honestly, don't worry about it. I have a weird background myself. I studied Physics, but didn't finish my degree (about a semester short :( ). My University (a branch campus) started shutting down and stuff got complicated. I also got married and had a kid.

So I didn't finish my degree, got a good job offer doing Electrical Engineering (based off a good internship I did) for 3 years. Then switched to software, and with 7 years programming background (3 embedded at my last job and 4yrs of side projects and research code) I landed a Senior Programmer position at my new job. I'm not in the top bracket yet, but for essentially 4 years out of college (without a degree) I feel I'm doing pretty good.

Right now, CS seems to be a "Buyer's Market" where the job seekers have a bit more sway since everyone wants a new app or site or what not.

Like plenty of others have said, work on side projects and demo code. Doesn't have to be polished or whatever, but every little bit helps. Anything you do to learn a new platform or technique, stick in your portfolio. Get a Github or Gitlab. If you're shy about your code, Gitlab has free private repos, which you can share with an interviewer when it comes up (though I highly recommend you just go public with most of your code).

This is solved with a resume.

The short answer is "no, they won't care generally", but employers may care a little bit very early in your career and that level of caring will eventually fade to zero. In order for them to care, they first have to actually know. We can prevent that rather easily.

The secret to counteracting this is done on your resume typically (I'm a resume writer and recruiter, who coincidentally also graduated college after 6 years due to self-financing).

Listing college dates on a resume doesn't have any real rules. Early in your career you will likely list your graduation date, and perhaps even some coursework, projects, and a GPA. There is no need to list the date you started college.

At some point in your career your resume will change. You might not even list graduation date at all down the road, in order to prevent ageism. You'll just have your degree, major, and university - no other details. You also won't list your GPA at some point, and you don't even need to list it now. If they want to know, they'll ask.

If you're asked about college attendance, you should be honest and tell them how long it took and why. But usually they won't ask, unless there is something else on your resume that tips them off.

It took me 9 years to finish my C.S. degree. I dropped out a few times and took time off. I was 27 when I finally finished. My GPA was horrible, so I don't list it.

All I list on my resume is my graduation date. I've never had anyone ask how long it took, why I didn't list the start date (probably because I looked older), or my age. My GPA has never been asked for either. Just don't talk about anything related to the time it took, GPA, age, anything.

When I graduated I had multiple job offers within the first month. No issues at all. The main thing they care about once you make it to the interview is that you know your shit and can talk to people.

Good luck.

Hi all,

I'm reading Hacker News pretty regularly but didn't bother to register since now that I saw this question from JxGZV.

I come from really small EU country that was formerly communist and I'm also an CS student in my final year:) With that being said, I want to share my experience that I had recently with a pretty well known big company which is in the business of software engineering and was merged with another company in 2012. Because of various reasons I'm studying longer that it is expected, but nevertheless my CV is outstanding, since I have many achievements as an undergrad (participating at conferences with posters, winning hackathons etc....). To make long story short, I was asked what was I doing all these years and if I was "doing drugs or what?!".My answer was "No I did not". I didn't get an offer after this interview and was really happy because of that.

For anyone reading this, if you are in a similar situation, do not stress yourself with such questions. Just send the application and CV. If they ask questions like these, you can find a better employer and you probably don't want to work for them anyway. Believe me. I experienced it.

Relax. You're fine. No one cares. Just list graduation year.

In fact, I wouldn't really care of you had a degree or not. (Its a positive if you have one, but not a negative if you don't).

I wont detail specifics but I took longer than normal to attain my BS and I'm not shy about it on my resume. In all my interviews it came up once as an afterthought "Oh, why'd this take so long?" and a quick story was satisfactory.

No one will make a big deal out of it like you do. As others have said, try listing only your graduation date. If you think it will come up anyway, have a one sentence blurb prepared that seems reasonable.

Unless you're doing something like investment banking or consulting where the pipelines are congested they are going to care primarily about how well you can do the job.

THIS.

Speaking as a hiring manager, I will absolutely notice any delays or interruptions in your education (unless ancient); in the event you don't give the years, it often becomes obvious when you list high school degree or summer jobs.

The key is to have a reasonable story about the situation. Finishing a liberal arts degree in five years after you spent the first four partying doesn't send a good message. Finishing a degree after taking a break to handle <other important responsibility - family, startup, etc> or as a consequence of a major change that helps employer? Not a significant issue....

And keep the explanation simple, even if you have complex feelings about it. Think about it, identify a clear cut explanation, and give it when asked. Avoid the "doth protest too much" problem at all costs.

Maybe this is because I mostly see PhD resumes, but I can't recall ever seeing a high school degree on a resume.

I took 3.5 years for B.S. but I think my resume just has graduation year on it.

As most everyone says, no most interviewers won't care. In the small chance anyone ever asks why you took longer, just don't spin a whole sob story to explain. Just say 'personal circumstances' or so, very short and neutral, and quickly divert attention away to your GPA (if it stays good) to make it clear that it's not because you couldn't do the work.

I had an interviewee once who would try to explain everything that was remotely sub-optimal on his CV with long stories of how horrible his upbringing was and how hard he had it in life. I guess he was trying to get sympathy but all I heard was 'drama all around'. Now, being able to overcome adversity is a good thing in general, but there is a fine line between that and being desperate to blame everything on everyone else or emotionally blackmailing people.

So my advice, for what it's worth, is to not be seduced into giving long emotional explanations. Just say 'I had to work a full time job' or 'I had to finance myself' and leave it at that.

You have not really overcome the adversity yet if it's still a chip on your shoulders years later.

Depends where you try to work. Most employers are only going to care about how sell yourself as a potential asset to their company. In the end, the only thing that matters is your ability to perform your job.

PS. I have a *friend who took 6 years to graduate with a BA in CS and now works for an awesome startup, that also employees some great programmers who never went to college.

PPS. If you're in CS create a GitHub account to act as your portfolio. Work on some projects in college; that way you have something to show the employer when they ask "So what have you done?".

> PPS. If you're in CS create a GitHub account to act as your portfolio.

this is totally unnecessary.

no reasonable engineer that is asked to interview you will look at your github, or care if you have one.

Disagree. Especially with entry level positions, it's a real nice bonus for me when I'm reviewing applicants. It gives me something to look for when there's no work experience to try to craft what this person has worked on.

> no reasonable engineer that is asked to interview you will look at your github, or care if you have one.

yeah gonna have to disagree on this. I'm an engineer and work for a BigCo Enterprisey company and while it's not necessary, if you have a GH account, it makes my job easier when I interview you. Of course if you write terrible code, then the GH account probably is not the best thing to have. But other than that, I can't see a reason why not to have one. If you have one, I definitely look at it and I consider engineers who have one higher than those that don't. Doesn't mean that I won't rate you favorably if you really know what you're talking about, but it doesn't hurt.

> But other than that, I can't see a reason why not to have one.

you are assuming that

* they want to write code outside of working hours

* they will put the same level of attention into the code they write outside of work as they do the code they write at work

* they want the code they write outside of work to be open source

failing to do any or all of these things, or doing any or all of these things, should not affect a candidates impression on you.

Of course it should.

Do you really not see the difference between being able to look at someone's code and trying to guess what it might look like via lame whiteboard implementations of basic algorithms?

Well said "chillaxtian"!

I vastly prefer to see portfolio work, and when I assist in screening resumes, I always look at the people with portfolios first: they provide the most signal. How does your code look? How do you interact with others?

When I'm doing deeper interviews, I check the portfolio as well: what is the specialty and interest of the person? What are they up to? Do I want to work with this person?

At the end of the day, we're both human beings, and we have to get along at work. I don't want to be in a bad relationship. So I look at, and prefer resumes that give me the most information to this end.

Other people do it differently.

Hiring manager perspective: Nope. Glad you finished. If you're a new grad without much experience outside of internships (meaning you didn't work in the relevant field while obtaining your degree), I will care more about your GPA. As a general matter, I often don't even look at or ask about GPA because it matters very little to me, but if you took 6 years to get a bachelors I'd prefer to see good grades. After all, when everyone else crammed 15-18 credits per semester, it's fair to expect that the person doing 8-12 per semester for a longer period of time should have better grades. Of course, if there are external factors beyond wanting/needing more time to do the coursework, that's taken into consideration as well.

Be prepared to talk about why it took you longer. It's not a bad thing to be asked, in the same way that other hiring managers asking about my law degree/legal experience isn't bad either, it's just out of the norm for someone working in fintech. Be honest - you can say there were family reasons or whatever without getting into the details. If your interviewer is anything resembling a human, they'll understand. If they don't, you're avoiding a shitty work-life balance situation and/or a shitty boss.

If you don't have other experience, though, or don't need/want to illustrate that your degree happened while you were doing other relevant, career-path work, you could just put the graduation date on your resume.

I think the evidence from a lot of people here is that:

- Mostly it does not matter. List when you graduated, provide evidence of what you have worked on and done well at, and be transparent if people care enough to ask

- It matters more in highly competitive or zero-sum situations in which they are comparing two otherwise well qualified people, and less if they need to hire someone.

- It matters more in other, more competitive fields than it does in CS because CS work is more accreditive (and less role driven than law, for example)

My father took around 12 years to get his CS degree. He was full time military and raising a family at the time, and took night classes through the University of Maryland which has annexes around the world, wherever we happened to be stationed.

Maybe it's just because of that, but I've always had MORE respect for people who take a long time to finish. I say this as a guy who went the normal 4 years in college.

You go through crap, you still get what needs to be done, done? Ya, I'd hire you.

I got my CS degree after 6.5 years, normally it's a 5 year program, but I switch from engineering at one point and messed up a semester.

No one ever cared. No one ever asked.

Graduating is what counts, not how long it takes. Your time in school is what you make of it. It's much better to take a long time and graduate, than to take the right amount of time and not graduate, so never give up just because you're late!

Only my university counselor noticed that I was taking a long time to graduate, and chastised me for taking all these exciting high level computer science classes and independent studies that I was interested in, instead of the boring low level pre-requisites required to graduate.

I finally took the required prerequisites and graduated, but unfortunately it was before "Rate My Professors", so I ended up failing and re-taking Statistics from Sergy Brin's dad, who's "awful" [1]. But those extra semesters gave me time to take some other great courses from diverse departments like Art and Hearing and Speech, which were really useful.

[1] http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=761872

Honestly, unless you're putting the years you've attended school on your resume, I have no way of knowing how long it took you to get your degree.

I'm WAY more interested in what you can DO and what you have demonstrably DONE, so it's way more important for you to focus on side jobs, internships, and open source contributions than it is to worry about how long it will take you to get a degree.

Most people don't finish in 4 years . . .

When you build out your resume just list the year of graduation for your CS degree, which is standard. Don't include HS or other dates where they can see it took more than 4 if you're worried.

If they ask be honest and just indicate you worked your way through college, participated in this, lots of good reasons for taking more than 4 years.

I can't imagine this even coming up in an interview. Any company that did care is probably a sweatshop so feel lucky if they decline you for that reason.

I'd like to piggyback on this question with my own, which is relevant.

tl;dr: do employers care at what age you finish your degree?

Long story: I'm a 35 year old software engineer with 6 years of experience (mostly java/scala), currently an EU citizen residing in UK (London). I've studied CS when I was 18 at the universtiy, but dropped out (various reasons). Now since Brexit news I no longer feel I want to continue living here and I am strongly thinking of moving to USA. My plan is to get a Computer Science BsC from Open University in 3 years, apply for H1B visa/job and then later green card. I'm only doing my degree now because of H1B requirements, no other reasons. I would be 38 by the time I finish it.

No, I think going back to school shows that your serious about your occupation, if anything, its a huge plus IMO

Right, I am actually going to school because I want to. I am already 34. I am learning at probably twice the speed I did when I was in my 20s, because now I've experienced what they are talking about.

In your case, it seems unlikely to be an issue. In most circumstances, I think it would result in a few extra questions.

Generally, a degree that comes after years of professional experience indicates a career switch, and those employees often need to work harder to find a good fit – usually, an organization that can make use of the skills they learned in the previous phase of their career. The reasons for this mostly come down to being very junior in skill level but having difficulty working under the same circumstances (low pay, trained by a 25 year old, potentially long hours...) of the typical junior hire.

There are exceptions to this, and there are many career switchers that navigate this well, but it's definitely worth keeping in mind.

I am getting my degree now and I've already been in work for 17 years. Why? Because I want to know the theory! :)

(My name relates to the part I know)

I can answer as someone who has done hiring.

Legally, no they don't care. There will be hiring policies that dictate complete independence of non-relevant factors

Truthfully speaking, as long as you're under 45 and you've done something with your life during your non-working time, you're okay. It really helps if you can have a steady employment history, or at least proof you've been given money for doing something related to your degree, but my experience is that 45 is the first age where questions start to arise.

For traditional businesses in the US, longevity and dedication to the company are big. 5 years at a traditional company is considered a short time - the closer you get to retirement, the less you can give the company, and the closer you are to having age related ailments, etc. Age discrimination is very real, especially in tech (and doubly so in programming specifically), but you're well under the limit for most employers. A few start-ups might go cock-eyed at the graduation dates, but start-ups are a different beast entirely.

I was a 34 year old software developer when I started my first semester at a US community college. I transferred to a top US engineering school a year later. I finished two BS degrees (Computer Science and Electrical Engineering) at 38 and started working on an Electrical and Computer Engineering MS.

It is my impression that employers don't care. They care much more about what you've learned, the projects you've worked on, and how passionate you are about the field.

Some will, some won't. In all honesty I think you should be glad for the ones that will reject you based on that. It shows a toxic culture focused on things that aren't really important.

Much more important is where your degree is from as to whether it means anything.

You should have an answer prepared for why it took longer that is reasonable and doesn't reflect badly. I.e. "I failed classes and had to take them over." doesn't sound good. "I took a lighter class load so that I could work while going to school to lower my debt." sounds reasonable.

"Going through a lot of stuff" isn't good enough.

I dropped out of school in 2001 because my parents got divorced and I no longer had a stable home to live in and I also broke my leg and had huge medical bills, so I needed to make money and get an apartment instead.

I would call that "going through a lot of stuff." It's not good enough though? Why not?

So the way you would want to explain that to a potential employer is "I had to take a break from school due to financial problems."

The actual phrase "I was going through some stuff." is not good enough. It's an unprofessional answer. You need to be able to explain what "stuff" is in a professional way that makes sense and isn't overly dramatic. Otherwise the concern is you're going to "go through some stuff" as an employee and have excessive sick days, etc.

Yes, exactly right. Good answer :)

I mean, I would probably naturally start with "There was a lot going on," and then explain. You know, being that I am human and all, so I have emotions.

Hopefully in an interview you would actually be able to have a conversation, rather than it just being a series of questions where they write down the answer and move on. I suppose you would need to gauge the style of the interview. If it really is going to be that formal, yes, you would need to have precise response like that.

It's hard to imagine an interviewer who wouldn't automatically ask the follow up question when someone gives a vague answer.

Sometimes responding to comments it seems like I am arguing a counter-point, but really I am just continuing the same line of thought from a different view.

It took me nearly 7 years to finish my BS degree in CS. I took a couple of years off in the middle and then at the end I was working full time and taking part time classes.

I also took 7 years to finish my Master degree. I was working full time and only took a couple classes a year. I also took off a few semesters off when I had kids.

Nobody has ever asked about either situation. I wouldn't worry too much. As a hiring manager I've never cared about that.

If a political science major with a 2.0 gap spends 6 years going through a big state school - recruiters will assume they spent the time drinking. It won't hurt in a sales or politics job but perhaps elsewhere.

It won't hurt a smart CS major with a good GPA. When asked, say, "I self funded my education" or "I had to work" and that can even become a plus. (Just don't outright lie)

Breaks for any variety of reasons are very common in University. Barring a few specific majors where competition is so heavy that a break will lower your standing, most employers won't care, and probably for legal safety, won't ask about breaks. (For example, you might get into stuff you're forbidden to ask about if you bring that up.)

I've never even asked in an interview and if they have more than 4 years on their resume I just assume they had a rough semester, or some other external factor.

My wife took 8 years to finish her MS because she did it part time. Does that mean she doesn't know her stuff? That's very far from the truth.

I don't even list the year, just school and degree. Nobody has asked ever, aside from alumni who asked about a professor or did I know a certain person.

When i was right out of school I added some stuff about the program and noteworthy projects but that came off after I landed my first job.

Beyond your first job, nobody will care. While interviewing for your first job, employers may ask. But it's not a big deal unless you make it a big deal.

Have a simple clear answer. Working to pay for school is a great reason. "Going through a lot of stuff" is a bad explanation, sounds like Jim Anchower[1].

Work experience (internships, part time programming jobs) are a great way to shift the focus from your school history to your work abilities. That's the reason nobody will care after your first job, they will just be asking about your work experience.

[1] http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/jim-anchower-is-one-smart-u...

Most employers (in the US) care first and foremost that you have a degree in your field. Not so much where you got it, or how long it took you to get it.

inb4 people start posting they don't. HN isn't a solid representative sample of the US let alone world job market.

For me, it didn't. I took NINE years to get my BA. That being said, an employer might care, but my guess would be, most do not, especially if you go on to get a masters or something else. For most any job experience counts a great deal as well.

As a long-time employer the answer is "no" ... I don't necessarily care how long it took to earn a degree.

But ...

From my observations, earning a BS (or BA?) requires a far less rigorous schedule than working at a full-time job. If you couldn't manage a normal class load because there was "stuff going on", I'd expect that "stuff will continue to go on" and that would distract you from what I need in an employee.

What assurances can you offer an employer that you will be a functional employee? Many positions (in the U.S. at least) have a probation period during which you've got to prove you're carrying your weight (providing a positive ROI in some sense).

> From my observations, earning a BS (or BA?) requires a far less rigorous schedule than working at a full-time job.

Pfft. A 9 to 5 job sounds like a piece of cake compared to some of my semesters. At least provided you are not working when you get home. I guess that some universities just don't push students too hard then.

Also, the "stuff going on" could well be a full time job, as it was in my case. What then?

9 to 5 jobs are a walk in the park compared with BS workloads. One of my friends, while working full time in the university I was studying at, once commented that I did more hours per week than he did. He said every time he saw me, I was on my way to the lab, or on my way to class from the lab.

In the first week of the first semester of second year (Bachelors are normally three years where I live), we lost 12 people from the core paper. By the end of the second week, 20 were gone. By the time the paper had finished, 13 weeks later, fewer than 50% of the people who signed up remained, and of those, just over half were in a position to complete the paper.

To complete one assignment, I had to sit in the same spot for 17 hours, with just half an hour off for some food. Went home at about 6am the next morning, slept for an hour, went back to the lab, and worked another six hours. That year, they seriously cocked up the expected workload for the entire second year and gave us what they acknowledged was a workload appropriate to third year.

There are laws intended to prevent that happening to employees, but no such protections for university students.

In fact, the only time I've had a job that even came close to comparing with this workload was a few years ago, when my employer refused to let me take breaks and working just my contracted hours was (in his deluded little mind) grounds for dismissal. No extra pay for the 15-30 extra hours I did every week, though...

They will if it's clear from your resume that you took 6+ years to graduate. It's a reasonable concern for an employer, since the cause is often different from yours (namely, lack of effort).

So, as other have suggested, don't make it obvious. It's ridiculous to see the year of high school graduation on a resume anyway. Also, you don't have to list internships from your first two years.

If it does come up, or if they ask about it, do not lie. The appearance of hiding anything is a red flag. Just tell them that you were dealing with personal issues, and that they are resolved now. So, it won't affect your ability to perform the job.

Is "lack of effort" really the cause in the US? College completion rates seem to be heavily impacted by finances based on what I've heard on NPR.

In my time and place (2001-2006, Idaho) finances weren't the driver for slow graduation or delays. Frequently it related to poor scholastics and retaking things (excessive pot, excessive alcohol, excessive video games are frequent contributors). Other aspects might be: had a kid, got a job, but those usually were thing that led to dropping out.

Your typical scholastic college student in my peer group did just fine in graduating between 4 and 5 years.

N.b., a lot of the wailing over school costs is from the Ivy League and SLAC set; those prices drive up the average considerably. State universities are much, much cheaper. (Still spendy... but often an order of magnitude cheaper).

> N.b., a lot of the wailing over school costs is from the Ivy League and SLAC set; those prices drive up the average considerably.

Not really; there's not enough schools or slots in that set to drive up the average much.

> State universities are much, much cheaper. (Still spendy... but often an order of magnitude cheaper).

Both State universities and non-elite private universities have gotten expensive much, much faster than elite private universities (and both, especially State schools, have much less school-provided need-based grants available, resulting in much more dependence on loans, and much more impact on actual affordability from the sticker price increases.)

I have a B. A. In Fine Arts (studio specialization). I have spent all of my career as web, then software developer of some kind.

While I sometimes envy you (and others) for having CS degrees, I have never had a difficult time landing work as a developer. Imposter syndrome is still pretty high though.

As many others have suggested, just list the graduation date. That's all prospective employers care about. The fact that you have a CS degree matters more than how long you took to earn it.

But even that pales in comparison to your ability to clearly communicate what you're competent at. So focus on your communication skills and self esteem. And you'll do just fine!

A few will, the majority won't. The key to not coming off as whiny is not to be whiny :)

As with any Resume/CV issue like this just practice answering the question - a couple of sentences is sufficient, and you'll be fine.

Plenty of people take longer than four years due to reasons that would qualify them for protection from discrimination under the ADA. And as others have noted, asking about this can also be construed as a roundabout way of discriminating on the basis of age. Sensitive (and smart) hiring managers would probably not probe that area too deeply.

And honestly, I question the predictive value to job performance of this data point in the first place. I would hope most people wouldn't get hung up on it. There are many more valuable data points to examine.

http://business.time.com/2013/01/10/the-myth-of-the-4-year-c...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/education/most-college-stu...

Most people do not graduate in four years. This is not an issue.

In my case it took over 16 years to get my degree. I think it worked out in my favor. If there is any age bias in the initial resume scan most reviewers will guess me being 12 years younger than I am. Once you are in a position , often the extra years give you a bit more gravitas then someone in their early 20s. Either way, what really counts is how excited you are about doing the work. If you love what you do, you should have no problem.

Personally I've always been more interested in why you decided to study what you studied vs what you actually went to school for or how long it took you.

The only time employers (that are worth working for) actually care about your degree at all is if you are being hired as an engineer, a lawyer, or a doctor.

As someone who's done a lot of hiring both at a large investment bank as well as a small startup (grew from 5->80), it wouldn't even occur to me to ask about duration spent in college.

I don't know anything about interviewing at large tech companies, but from my perspective, the best thing anyone can do to prepare for an interview is to be able to talk, in detail, about work you did that you are really proud of.

As I haven't seen that come up yet, I should add that it really depends in what country/what culture you want to work.

I'm french and swiss. In France, they put (unfortunately) a really strong focus on the degrees and the marks, in general, for everything.

It's truly hard to find a job, even if you're good, without a degree (except maybe in the startup scene), and you better indicate if you take longer than "normal". Most of the people do their first degree in 3 years, then their engineering or business graduate school in 2 years, and as such, it can be complicated if you're applying for a job at 29 if most of the people land the same job that you're applying for at 23 or 25. It sucks, but it's unfortunately how many people think in France.

It's quite different than in Germany, where I know a lot of people who have stop for 5 years there, then continue their studies, then land another job in a different work sector, ... It's not shocking for someone to be 30+ and begin to work in IT, for example (at least, not in my experience), when i think it would be a bit more in France.

Switzerland would be a bit in between France and Germany when it comes to "elitism", "focus on degrees rather than experience", because Switzerland has a very, very long history of apprenticeship and their whole education system is based on it, and so, even if degrees are important, experience is too, but sometimes, it feels like they are out of reality for some other work stuff.

And it's again very different from UK or USA, where indeed, I have been able to land a position in a new startup without even showing my resume, but just showing my skills and talking about what I experienced and learned and deduced in the past. So ... really, "it depends".

A final advise I would give to you is that I feel like it's really important to spend enough time to learn about the place you want to work at and its culture (moreover it will help you know if you should precise or not if you took longer than usual to complete your degree ;)), because too often, people send dozens and dozens of resume and eventually, it feels like it lacks "personal interest" and if an employer doesn't feel you're truly and personally interested in working at his place, he will prefer to give your seat to someone who "truly cares"

(edit : typos)

This is the best thing in C.S that no one even care about the duration of your degree. They only consider the Technical Skills and the productivity.

It took me four years to finish my degree (normally it should take 3) and nobody has ever brought it up in the last three or four years (I gradueted in 2011).

Don't sweat it too much - most people understand you can be perfectly capable of doing the job without having adegree in CS. More to the point, a lot of programmers don't even get a CS degree and they still hold down very productive programming jobs.

No, just list the graduation year on your resume. Almost no one will ask or notice. If someone does ask, just give a canned answer like "I had some medical issues when I started college, and had to take some time to get healthy"–this answers the question and deflects further inquiry (asking about medical history is approximately illegal) while making the problem sound solved.

just put your graduation date.

in my own experience (interviewed for internship, current full time position, and a few competing positions, and have interviewed many candidates):

i did not feel like my educational experience was taken into account when interviewing.

and when my coworkers and i interview candidates, education is almost never discussed.

the only reason i suggest omitting the start date is to get past HR filters.

I'm in a position to hire at a startup, and I definitely don't care. One of my smartest friends took 5 years to graduate from Caltech and has a 2.x GPA to boot.

Also you should just write your graduation year for education anyways, not duration.

...from Caltech

It shouldn't even be on your resume, and in the US even asking your age is very risky for them.

I'd be far more concerned that you are so completely unaware that this info isn't even generally on anyone's resume...

I was asked my age in an interview. What's the problem with doing that?

You can sue the company for age discrimination if you don't get an offer and they've asked you personal questions like that.

Luckily they did give me an offer for an internship. I thought it was probably a strange question to ask. It was in my third interview they asked, after I already passed the phone tech screen and programming challenge. Maybe they were already set on hiring me, and wanted to ensure I was drinking age?

I took extra time to finish mine too. I just put the year I graduated on it and not how long it took. It's never come up and couldn't imagine it being an issue if it did.

A computer science degree is a serious challenge. There is no shame in taking longer than 4 years to finish it.

Yes, you are likely to get questions about it. If you have an interview it is wise to know beforehand what you will answer when they ask you this question. But it won't prevent you from landing a decent job.

I started my first college class in 1991, and finished my degree (finally!!) in 2013. It hasn't hurt me, any.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be fair, I was already well advanced in my career.

Business Management major. I work in Systems Engineering.

does not matter. also, after you have a solid employment history, it's common to simply not put any dates at all in the academic section.

edit: if you put any date at all, just include the year you received the degree. no need to put any further details.

Nobody cares. Nobody even has to know, just indicate the graduation year.

In one word, no. If asked simply say personal life events.

They most definitely do not.

who said u had to finish?? its what u know. its what u can do. paper is paper

Some employers prefer candidates who have proven history of completed projects. A degree is a one massive project, completed.

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