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Comment by Swizec | Hacker News Reader

I came here at 26. My English tests at native levels or above (it's been ~10 years since I took the test). Most people assume I'm a native speaker until they hear my accent and even that is going away.

English really isn't that hard to learn.

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I'm impressed when someone says English is not hard to learn. I'm a native English speaker now living in an Asian country where I have learned the language. When I view English from my new perspective it seems so much more difficult. Even just trying to explain to non-native speakers inconsistent pronunciations it seems ridiculous (how about these 4 words: rough, plough, though, through). I can't even get started on verb conjugations and all the irregularities

English is tough, though through thorough thought it can be mastered.

What a concise way to get your point across.

Idiomatic English is hard. From your HN profile[0]:

"At least 5000 people bought my books..."

Don't ask me why, but to me it should read instead:

"at least 5000 people have bought my books,"

or even:

"over 5000 people have bought my books."

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Swizec

You example makes the point that formal English hard to write, not hard to read.

Just "bought" implies that the sale of the books is compassed in the past. It sounds strange because no explicit compass is mentioned and the reader suspects they are still for sale. I don't see anything wrong with "at least" though. Note that "over" changes the meaning (>= vs. >) and at least some prescriptivists obelize using "over" like that (I believe the AP Stylebook used to).

[...]and at least some prescriptivists obelize using "over" like that (I believe the AP Stylebook used to).

Indeed they did, until very recently[0]. I had no idea.

[0] http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/more-than...

But in idiomatic spoken English, at least in the US, people omit that have. I agree that it's there for more formal or more British English.

Also, what you're describing goes beyond native level English and reaches the level of professional writer/teacher/linguist/editor/etc level English. I would expect many HN readers to have English proficiency beyond native level.

Speaking idiomatic English is irrelevant in technical or professional discourse however. His point is clearly made, even if it is not the most natural syntax/semantics possible.

You have got to be kidding me. I'm a native English speaker and the sentence sounds totally fine the way he wrote it. Plenty of native speakers could have produced it and I'm not even totally convinced (though it might be true I guess) that the other two are statistically more common

"Over 5000 ... have bought" is obviously the best formulation to a native English speaker who can write / copy edit well.

That's very impressive. Obviously everyone will experience different learning curve, but you are an exceptional individual and not a norm.

I think it has more to do with the fact that most of the develop world starts learning English before they're 10 years old. And a lot of the music/movies/internat is in English as well.

I'm sure it also has to do with what country you were raised in, your exposure to media etc, your educational and support system, your level of motivation and dedication, and your aptitude. I taught English for three years in a foreign country to many smart people who struggled to learn the language. Although English is apparently not difficult for you, the claim that "English really isn't that hard" is clearly untrue for a great many learners. (Also there are a few minor errors in the above post ;))

As with anything, it depends. It's never seemed hard to me and I'm sure we can all agree that it's among the easier languages for people to learn. At least people coming from indoeuropean languages.

As for errors, I've noticed that spending time in the US and using colloquial English a lot, has wreaked havoc on my English grammar. Or maybe it's the distance from schooling that did it.

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