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Comment by jamesbressi | Hacker News Reader

Hmm... sounds like an opportunity.

Juan Gonzalez says this is happening all around the country with cities and states converting to digital systems.

The consultants are being paid $400,000 a year. Nice. Because it is a capital expenditure no one knew what these people were being paid so you have to dig into the city records.

For what?

Basically a digital payroll and time-keeping system with features such as "biometric hand scanners to avoid city workers punching in for other workers" and digital timecards.

Anyone up for going after cities and governments who are doing this or looking to do this? It's taken 7 years in New York at a cost of almost $1 billion, I say we can do it for... oh, I don't know, 1% of that and in 1/7th the time?

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The $400,000 dollars per year isn't all going to product development. $350,000 of it is to compensate the consultants for navigating the nightmarish government bidding process laced with procedural road blocks to newcomers, cronyism and incompetence. Been there and done that, would not do business with again.

I used to put together proposals for a huge general contractor as a marketing assistant. The completed government proposals usually consisted of between 15 and 30 three inch ring binders of information. It would take me 20 minutes just to load it into FedEx via hand truck from my car. (This would be for something like a military barracks, I'm not talking about skyscrapers or stadiums. Not to mention that it wasn't uncommon to have several rounds of RFP's.) Contrast that with a civilian proposal that would be two or three binders. Software is not construction, but I'm willing to bet the process of bidding is similar.

In other words, it's a fat payday if you can stomach the process, but few can. This is also doubly sinister in that it's a process that is going to be particularly distasteful to just the sort of person that would make a great developer; one who holds efficiency and ingenuity on high, etc... Which is exactly how you end up with terrible DMV sites and CIA, FBI and DHSA databases that are unsearchable, and won't talk to each other.

Addenda: I'm not trying to put people off. I just want to shed some light on exactly how much pain is here: A LOT. Maybe the game-changer isn't someone getting the contracts and doing great, but someone rejiggering the bidding process?

The best part is that the RNPs are designed to create EFFECIENCY in spending by creating a competitive bidding process.

I think you're wrong, and I don't think you can deliver on that promise. I had the opportunity to speak with someone in a similar sort of project in Canada who told me that one of the biggest costs involved in these sorts of projects are the legal expenses. Often times you have to clear all sorts of red tape that needs to be torn down. Lawyers aren't cheap, and laws will slow you down.

Another point to consider is that you're going to be building something that needs to last for many-many years and can take on new interfaces over the coming years (e.g. iPhones, web, portable devices, etc). You need to build something that is going to be durable, grow, and be maintainable for years to come. Along this point, you'll need to import, manage, and parse old data.

Did you forget the training costs for city employees and the programmers that will maintain these systems? How about documentation?

I know you're being flip and trying to make a point that the city is being milked (and they are), but there's a reason for this. These contractors are doing a difficult, high stress job with lots of visibility. Their compensation, though high, is understandable -- as are their delays.

It is unfortunate this is happening. Be aware, however, that the solution is not just a technology solution it is probably also a business solution--dealing with various agencies of the city and their processes. I bet most money is spent on meetings and business process consultants... [Edit: not to say it cannot be done cheaper, but may not be trivial.]

The problem isn't the product - the problem is the politics.

You would be surprised. A lot of these guys write the most horrific code you will ever see.

If you are a startup, leave government contracts for someone else to figure out. By the time it comes thru and makes you a boat load of money, you will be long dead (as a company).

This was said by PG or someone definitely smarter than me.

I do know of one Start Up that is making huge amounts of $$$ from the government: http://www.palantirtech.com/government

It seems that if you know how to navigate the red tape and can deliver a compelling product you can make millions.

My company as well sells about 80% to the government. Government contracts are not really that big of a deal.

I'd say that our commercial customers are quite a bit higher touch than our government customers. The government also seems to have a much better handle on their business processes than any of the fortune-500 companies we deal with.

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