Ask HN: Spending my free time in video games. It's eating me. Suggestions?

Some really good points and advice here. I just want to add: you're 22. What you are experiencing is totally normal. Everyone goes through this struggle at some point in their lives - not necessarily with video games, it can be with other things. The guilt is a perfectly normal reaction to the situation, so no need to beat yourself up about it. What you are feeling are two opposing needs that need to be met - both are perfectly valid. The need to feel productive, and the need to feel relaxed. You need to acknowledge both.

Also, I am guessing that that need to feel productive may come from an expectation to achieve and possibly appear successful. If it is, it would be beneficial to really deeply question the motivation behind it. A lot of people at that age (including me, when I was) believe that you have to 'be' somebody. That is an external expectation that you would need to see through and let go of.

I always have trouble finding the real motivation and reasons behind things. I just don't what is the real questions I should be asking myself. For me, finding the why in things is sometimes really difficult. For instance, about exercising: I know that I should exercise so I'm healthier and live longer, but that reason alone sometimes isn't enough for me to get up in the morning and go for the jog. I guess I have a hard time acknowledging the fact that I need to relax sometimes, it's just that I don't really know any other form of relaxation but video games, and that makes me sad.

That's OK. Sometimes it takes time to find the real motivation behind something. Sometimes it doesn't make sense either, and that's OK, because it doesn't have to make sense, despite your mind thinking that it should. It takes an honesty with yourself to acknowledge those motivations as well. The key is to not beat yourself up about it too much. The more you do that, the more resistance you will feel about it.

"What you resist, persists"

That commute is killing you. So is the perception that you aren't doing anything if you aren't doing something all of the time. Give yourself a break. Everyone needs to have an outlet and video games happen to be on the lower end of the scale in terms of harmful outlets. Now you just need to forgive yourself for being human.

If you are intent on removing video games from your life, please replace it with something that allows you to free your mind. Join or start a meetup for something fun and attend it during your usual video game time. Go to your local pool and take a swim. Do anything that will take your mind off of your crappy commute, job, and MSc.

And go talk to someone if you feel you might be depressed. Good luck!

I don't feel depressed but I think you nailed it with " So is the perception that you aren't doing anything if you aren't doing something all of the time".

Every time since I started reading stuff about self improvement (2 years ago) that, everytime I touch on video games I feel bad about it and that I should be focusing on something else. It's a constant inner struggle that it's hard to win.

Have you tried listening to podcasts during the commute? I've found that doing so helps me fit in some extra "learning" time that would otherwise just be me sitting in traffic.

I can give some recommendations of the ones I listen to if you're interested! Mostly front end development / shop talk type stuff.

I listen to some podcasts, but would love to hear your recommendations!

Reading your post it's a bit unclear why you don't want to play video games. You obviously enjoy doing it a lot, and in particular you enjoy it more than the other things you listed (journaling, etc).

The strongest reasons seem to be external, like the embarrassment of being known as someone who plays lots of video games. That's a valid reason, but I mention it because maybe it's not in itself enough of a motivation for you to actually change.

So my humble guess is that you should take a while and think about your motivations and what it is that you'd really like to do instead, and how to get started with that.

I think momentum is a big thing in life, and it's always easier to go along the same old path, especially if you're tired and don't have lots of time for reflection.

I have some of these boring time sink behaviors too. Let's just come up with something to aim for...

Okay, here's my thing for this week. I like to bake simple bread, and I like to make websites, so I've been thinking about making a website about simple bread baking—a nice little guide, like a recipe but with inline big videos that I'd shoot with my DSLR, and very clear and nice instructions. So I'd like to get started on that, at least shoot most of the videos.

Which reminds me, bread baking is a nice thing to do! While it's rising and baking you have time to do other stuff, even play some game, but you're not just wasting time, you're baking! And then there's the smell of fresh bread and everyone's happy.

I had similar struggles. I was heavy in to CS:GO & dota2 and all I got out of this was going to bed angry.

My solution was pretty extreme - I sold my gaming PC. Here's my steam profile now: https://i.imgur.com/4sSc0O7.png

That said, I didn't stop gaming all together, a time later I bought a PS4 and some single player games. This holds my attention for an hour or so when I'm completely wiped from work towards the later part of the week.

I now use my time after to work for yoga (2x a week), meetups (~3 a month), doing some freelance WordPress work, and programming my hobby projects.

I also took up cycling to improve my fitness and now I am in bed by 9.30-10pm and get up at about 4:45 / 5AM to ride. On rest days, I still get up early and have a coffee, read the "news", and work on hobby projects before work.

I don't have specific advice to you, and the above is all my own experiences, but what I will say is that my mood, and outlook on life has improved. To that end, I will say there is hope and you are the only one who can impart positive change on your life. Just be willing to try and keep trying and I'm sure you will.

Happy to chat via email if you want someone impartial to talk to. pgord1 at gmail dot com

Yep. CS:GO here. I sometimes wonder why I still play that game. It's really digital crack. I really want to get into personal projects but sometimes I just would like to get out of the house and explore stuff. Thing is I can't do that, not where I live. At least until I move out.

You don't have to be productive all the time. It is important to have some time to relax and have fun. There are far worse things you could be doing than playing too many video games. You can try replacing video games with a more productive activity, but make sure it is something you enjoy doing and don't feel the need to quit gaming entirely.

I sometimes think of quiting cold turkey and find something else. This, however, scares the crap out of me, because I don't see myself replacing a 2 hour gaming session with a 2h book reading, for instance.

I guess I could start working on personal projects

During my free times (which is usually on the weekends) I work 4 to 5 hours on my thesis

Finish your thesis and then revisit this issue. There is nothing wrong with you. This is totally normal for someone working on something like this.

Time enjoyed is never time wasted. If you like playing games, don't feel bad about it. As long as you're not neglecting other aspects of your life to play them, there shouldn't be any problem.

It doesn't sound like you are though, you have a decent job, you spend time studying and you have a relationship. Stop beating yourself up.

I spend a lot oftime playing games too, They're fun and it's how I relax. I still make time to learn new things at home though. I would feel guilty if I didn't.

I would recommend not playing MMOs or MOBAs though, they seem to be the games that people play compulsively.

I really, really, have a hard time not beating myself up. I always want to be or feel better, but when I start thinking about the things I should be doing in order to improve, the friction is so high that I fall back to my default mode, which is to play a video game for an hour or two. In this case, it's CS GO.

>> I'm just afraid of being "a guy who plays video games on his free time"

You are the 22 years old guy who works full time and works on his thesis. The students I know are all lazy bastards compared to you...

Sometimes I pride myself in it, but I really have a hard time not beating myself up over it, and the inner struggle is constantly there.

Here's the framework that I've found useful for thinking about this in my own life. There's three ways to spend your time: work, rest, and leisure.

Work is all the things you need to do to live your life. This includes your job, errands, housework, etc. Things that you can't give up because they're a necessary part of your life.

Rest is all the things you need to do to be able to do your work. Sleep, food, exercise, and yes, TV & video games for relaxing can fit in here too.

Leisure is everything else - what you do with the time you've got left after working and resting.

The real question for you is: are you playing video games to rest, or for leisure? If they're restful for you, then I don't see the problem. You've got a busy job, a thesis, and n SO that you're all keeping up with. Everyone needs some downtime, so if you're feeling rested and relaxed afterwards, then great. Keep them as a part of your downtime routine. The one thing you may want to think about here is if video games are the best way to rest for <i>you</i>. If you're playing shooters and getting frustrated and angry, that's probably not as effective at relaxing as, say, building a castle with redstone circuitry in Minecraft. Or even cooking a tasty meal or going for a walk.

If you're filling your leisure time with them, then I'd think about it a little harder. Is there anything else you'd prefer to be doing with that leisure time? Leisure time is what you get to use to change yourself - to learn things, to exercise, to make yourself into who you want. So spend it wisely.

And seriously, cut out the commute. I suspect part of the problem may be that you really need all that rest time with video games but resent that you need it. Work from home, change your work hours so you're not commuting during rush hour, find a different job, whatever.

What I've done is change the games I play so it's easier to reframe them as being part of my personal development, hence not feel as guilty about playing them a lot. For me this meant removing games that were too grind-ey (major time sinks with little return on investment) or had toxic communities (very bad influences).

Instead I started playing short, single-player games with strong narratives and interesting gameplay that I could learn from on a mental or spiritual level. Now I treat playing games like I would treat reading books: they have to be a good fit for what I'm looking for and I need to come out of the experience having learned something useful or interesting; there needs to be more than just entertainment value. IMHO this way of thinking about games is a lot more effective than just uninstalling Steam and hoping you never fall for gaben's siren song again.

Yeah I need to start doing this. Ima start buying quality games. Already uninstalled CSGO. Screw that game. Thanks for that point of view.

CSGO and the previous games were also my crack and those of my friends. But it's clear now that it's morphed into something that I would rather not be a part of. The betting website shenangians from the past month were a symptom of deeper problem with that game and its community.

You'll definitely find something that would make better use of that time you had filled with CSGO, whether it's a game or not.

Not sure that its so much a symptom of a deeper problem as much as the fact that E-sports in general are a new industry and growing considerably. The amount of people involved in the counter-strike scene is at least 3-4 magnitudes larger than it was 7-8 years ago.

CSGO has a lot of players but compared to other popular games with their own economies - with exception to perhaps EVE Online - they don't have as many problems with shady item selling/trading markets as CSGO has. Look at DOTA2 for example.

DOTA2 items crashed in value. Before Valve made major changes, the trading market was huge. Same thing happened in TF2. It was just early on in virtual item trading websites. It took awhile, even in CSGO, for jackpot and lottery sites to come about.

If you are having trouble with recognizing delayed gratification, place play into the bin of work.

Start numbering and comparing everything you do (work and play).

You will start comparing playing video games to working out, and see that over your entire lifetime, the latter makes you happier.

Another timeless advice is sleep well, exercise, and read. But you probably know that.

Apparently couldn't edit? Wanted to add some personal details.

I was addicted to Dota 2, SSBM, and Hearthstone for a while; I have around 1.5 k hours logged on Dota 2, and that's not counting reddit time. Probably much longer on the latter two games. Untracked time.

But now even with gorgeous gaming setup (I just gamed on a mac before), I don't game for too long. I play Witcher 3 for around 2 hours and then stop. Why? How?

The biggest motivation was getting hospitalized and having a sensible schedule. I started sleeping earlier, eating at the right times, etc. What kept me going after the hospital was something else, though.

I made a priority list for everything (work & play). I now know that they (work & play) all contribute to my overall satisfaction in my life (former is usually delayed and latter is usually instant), and I live to optimize that satisfaction over time.

I plan to write a blog post sequence for this, but uggh... So I propose an available alternative.

The best place to start for "living well" would be the beginning part of "Rationality: From AI to Zombies" by Eliezer Yudkowsky[1]. This book helps you with instrumental rationality, which is the art of living. Highly recommended, even for a few chapters. The book is free as well.

Prioritize prioritization. Good luck, I feel you on how hard it must feel like to get out of that. Trust me, once you get out, it's even harder to fall back into the gaming mode.

[1]: https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences

Thanks for the book suggestion. Downloaded. Make sure to link me the blog post!

That commute is a huge time sink, and it's costing you a huge amount of money as well. If you found a way to cut it down, you'd have more time for other things. You could cook yourself nice meals (or at any rate you can practice cooking nice meals, it actually takes some skill), or spend more time with other people, or both at the same time.

Even if you still feel that playing games is shameful (and it's no more shameful than any other type of entertainment), you'll be a lot better off.

Approaching it from the other side, perhaps your choice of games could be improved. You don't really say what games you play, but you can always find a less mindless thing to play. I recommend Factorio, it's amazing (http://www.factorio.com/).

When I can, I try to just not have a computer at home for this reason. I have an e reader and a shitty cellphone that can is hard enough to use that I don't waste much time with it.

The trick is trying to find things that you can only use productively.

Terrible WiFi can also work if you can set it up. Something with 300ms lag is enough to stop me playing games. If you live with other people making sure your workstation is in the living room and not your bedroom also helps.

Get them out of the house. It's the same quitting unhealthy food. Take away easy access, and you'll do something else.

How are you spending your commute? Are you driving? Or taking a train? If you aren't driving, perhaps you can use that 15 hours a week to read, learn a new skill. Then when you are burned out from work and play video games you won't beat yourself up about it.

Also, count the video games as stress relief. We all need that.

My commute is public transportations (Bus + Train + Subway). I usually try to listen podcasts, but other times I'll just be on reddit, which sucks, I know

I've been on the uninstall/install cycle. I used to be very much into League, and plenty of games before that. I stopped on January 1st 2015 as part of my new year's resolution.

I knew I had to stop because it wasn't giving me time to achieve my goals. Specifically, to become a proficient programmer. I think this contributed greatly because the sensation of achieving little wins while playing games was immediately replaced by the same feeling when fixing bugs or having code behave just like you want it to. See: 'The Power of Habit'.

What did you replace games with?

If you work and have a normal social life. I don't see the problem of playing video games. You should have some resting/down time. Don't treat it as wasting of time, it is actually a quality time that ppl needs. If you want to focus on more time to do something else, find a buddy to do it together or find a motivation may help.

Self-hatred is the problem.

You know you don't enjoy playing video games in the long run, but you end up doing it. Not a simple case of "Don't worry," because OP doesn't want to do it.

It is essential to balance work with play. So you should not feel bad to play video games from time to time.

But if you're always doing things that involve a lot of thinking (work, study) it may be good to balance that with exercise or creating things with your hands.

If your work is not very exciting and it's unlikely to change then you may need to consider changing jobs.

Do you think physical activity would help? Building in a bit of exercise would probably have some benefit.

Would you be able to keep to a timetable of allowable game time? 30 minutes and no more? Because if so you cold use it as a reward for starting some thing else. "I'll do an hour of learning this other thing, then 30 minutes of games".

Limit yourself to casual games that don't soak up your life. Don't even look at an MMORPG or MOBA. It's digital crack. Focus more time on people.

All you need is Hyperdimension Neptunia!

What is wrong with you? You are living the dream. That sounds like the perfect life. I wish I had that when I was 22. Heck I wish I had that now.