Brazil Freezes Facebook Funds | Hacker News Reader

Brazil Freezes Facebook Funds

wsj.com

52 pointsrogerthis44 comments

Given that my understanding is WhatsApp/Facebook are quite literally unable to comply because the content doesn't exist (yay, E2E encryption!), this is also an absurd, disproportionate response.

But, unlike the usual response of blocking WhatsApp for hundreds of millions of entirely innocent people, this at least keeps this silly little war between the lawyers, where it belongs. If nothing else, a step in the right direction.

this war will move to the users if Facebook decides to pull out of the country altogether. This is a very interesting case to follow: If Brazil 'wins', this might be the first case where a government says "I don't like E2E encryption on your app, get off my country", and a company complies. On the other hand, imagine if Facebook proper, pulls out of Brazil and that causes their government to fall. :-)

Facebook pulling out of Brazil? And opening up for other businesses to capture the millions of users? Yeah, I don't think so, but it definitely is a fight that I want to watch closely.

And regarding the government to fall... the floor is pretty close already.

It would be pretty great, but it won't happen. Look at all the major tech companies happily collaborating with China's government censorship. They'll talk big about moral obligations and our children's futures and etc. when their interests happen to line up with those things, but access to lucrative markets will always, always trump.

> On the other hand, imagine if Facebook proper, pulls out of Brazil and that causes their government to fall. :-)

Facebook already deposed one government here in Brazil. ;)

That's why current gov probably will go full power against it anytime soon, if it isn't already started. I don't like Michel Temer (coupist president), but I dislike FB a lot more, so the better would be for them to destroy themselves and leave Brazil to Brazilians :)

> Facebook already deposed one government here in Brazil. ;)

That is a gross overstatement. Brazilian here.

It also wasn't a coup. The former is/was impeached for shenanigans involving the state petro co./graft and misstating economic numbers and many other irregularities.

Firstly, out with Temer!

It was most definitely a coup. The people prosecuting her couldn't care less about the alleged violations, that's just a nifty way they managed to get into power.

The people in charge now manage to be even dirtier.

I guess you guys proves that FB/whatsapp/Google/YouTube brainwashed most of Brazillians. After the coup, peace is reigning in Brazil (thanks to the media that stopped with the terror and the American tech companies, mainly FB, stopped their terror echo Chamber).

Just social media and not Globo TV etc.?

That TV Globo and other media families wanted Dilma and PT ousted of power was nothing new. Social media support, beginning with the "jornada de junho de 2013" was what really triggered the parlamentary coup.

While I share your sympathy for people being able to communicate, on the other hand, I can't possibly see a good future if multinational corporations are allowed to pick and choose which laws they have to comport with.

Substantially identical article: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-facebook-whatsapp-i...

Notably: non-paywalled.

Suddenly everyone's newsfeed has started featuring stories about the polluted Rio Olympics.

As someone not on Facebook, I'm finding it very challenging to tell whether that's sarcasm.

haha best comment ever.

Will google loon or the facebook drone thing get over these problems?

You either need permission to get those up in their airspace, or really good G2A defenses :-)

So no, probably not without really upsetting the government.

So satellite is the way to go for big internet companies to get over this?

Diddnt Elon Musk mention something about putting up LEO sats for worldwide Internet.. Gone a bit quiet but I definately recall something like this...

If you're a government, you can override a corporation, full stop. Whether that's legally, or with force, it's going to happen (up to and including jamming satellite communications or even destroying your satellite).

You could retaliate by force as a corporation, but then you'll probably end up dissolved with your corporate officers in prison.

Google loon and Facebook Drone are essentially the problem. Or they start to conform with local policies or they will find a bad ending anytime.

BTW, in English one says "Either ... or ...", not "Or ... or ..."

Really? I could care less. (Is it right?)

I think there is a point that most coverage and discussions miss. Maybe judges understand that Whatsapp can not fulfill their requests, but they choose to block the service to put pressure on the company to better address a very important question, which is how society should treat the question of privacy and, specifically, how can law enforcement and companies cooperate on cases and investigation that rely on this kind of data.

If you look by another angle, Facebook is holding 10, 100, maybe 1000 million Brazilian dollars in taxes at some bank in Ireland :)

The interim government of Brazil wants to control media far beyond what they already do. This is just the next step, since their main ally (Globo Media Network) is directly threatened by the advance of Facebook and Google in the country.

That is just paranoia.

Didn't the supreme court or higher ups keep reversing ruling banning the service?

$11m frozen? Move on.

Until the bully comes back for more . . .

What exactly happens when a service like WhatsApp gets shut down like that? Is there a giant firewall or something?

ISPs and telcos receive blocking order. That means almost the entire country loses access.

EDIT: grammar.

Most likely the ISPs drop/block the BGP routes, or just null route traffic for those blocks.

Here in India they just return NXDOMAIN for the name. So it is pretty easy to bypass using 8.8.8.8. Also, the guy who installed the router at my home changed the default DNS to 8.8.8.8. I think ISPs do this on purpose. They don't wanna block sites their customers wanna access. And the government is dumb enough to not understand the difference between a DNS block vs a real block.

Dumb is often good enough for big companies and governments. (See: DRM.)

If you are the sort of person who is able to change your DNS, you are also capable enough to use foreign VPNs etc.

So what happens if you're behind Cloudflare (or similar)? They block all of cloudflare? Cloudflare drops you as a customer?

Next step: stop their tax dodges and unfair competition :)

Given that Eduardo Saverin is from Brazil, and if there was any truth to the "The Social Network"/The Accidental Billionaires narrative at all, it's oddly appropriate that Facebook is getting its money withheld by Brazilians once again.

Because he lives there? $11mm is .06% of Facebook's 2015 revenue. I doubt they care at all nor is there anything they can do about this.

He doesn't live here, he lives in Asia. He's barely brazilian, actually.

He lives in Singapore. Along with his billions.

Not once again but for the first time :)

Yup, everyone in a country of 200 million people is connected. Just like everyone in Britain knows the Queen.

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