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Comment by blowski | Hacker News Reader

As somebody that has hired a few IT people, it's frustrating when you receive a CV where the main focus is a list of skills. For example, I can receive 100 CVs that all say "I can do JavaScript", but skill level ranges from those who can just about activate a jQuery plugin through to people that could probably build jQuery from scratch. I want to see examples of how you've used those skills, because then I can form my own opinion of your capabilities.

So talk about your achievements, and mention the skills you used as part of that. Be specific, and focus on the most important bits instead of listing every single item. Remember to include human skills like planning and leading.

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While your suggestion appears meaningful, I argue it is not; it's just hindsight. Very often a seasoned developer has a multitude of skills; if I need to be specific, I cannot list them all. Unless I use tens of pages - then the CV is too long. The most important bits may be very different for different companies and positions - but it's not easy to tell from the outside, especially from a job application form which may be very vague and indeed just list a number of technologies.

Also: it's very hard for people to compress their lives in a CV.

Recently, when writing a job ad, I usually ask something like:

"send us your CV, or a link to your blog, or write something about you, what you like to do and what you do well, tell us something great you did in your career, or just send us anything you think it's relevant for us to understand your value".

If you just ask a CV, you just get a CV.

> Also: it's very hard for people to compress their lives in a CV.

It's very hard, which is why those that do it well stand a better chance of getting the job.

FWIW, I have compressed my CV to the back of a business card. Sure it misses out an awful lot of detail, but it leads to someone looking at my full CV, which leads to a full interview, which hopefully leads to a job.

"those that do it well" is subjective. It's hindsight. Very often, "well" will mean "what I wanted to hear".

Maybe somebody didn't compress their live "properly" for your target, and they passed under your radar. But you don't know.

Just an example: you. I just took a look at your homepage and the "About Me" box. Great summary, beyond the "Caprhone" typo: but I'd say that your description is not at all deep. You're a developer, sysadmin, copywriter: do you really do ALL (or any) of those things really well, or you're a bit of a generalist that produces a so-so result in everything?

I took a look at your CV: If I need somebody who's a great, pixel perfect, web designer, is that you? I know what you've done, but I don't know what you excel at.

It's not easy!

Thanks for pointing out the typo, I'll fix it ASAP.

I will agree that I have probably turned down some excellent candidates because their CV wasn't written clearly enough. That's kind of my point.

My CV is not designed to be a 100% complete and accurate representation of my life. It's enough detail to initiate a phone interview.

I've also taken on board what you said about making it clearer what I do best. I'll try rewording the intro a bit.

My father used to re-write his resume for every single job he applied for, tailoring it to the exact job. And then had my mother write it up on the typewriter. He was very good at doing it, probably at least partially from so much practice, and never had a problem finding a new job.

My point is that he always made sure his resume said what people wanted to read in it. He never tried to make a generic one that fit every job he might apply for, and that tactic was very effective.

I don't do the same thing, but I think if I found a job I really wanted, I would do it.

Exactly. Times have changed, but wise people used to say, the resume -- always accompanied and focused with a concise cover letter -- gets you the interview.

It gets you to the next step. (And maybe serves as a basis or starting point for some of the questions and conversation, then. Depending on the interviewer.) That's all it does.

Tailor accordingly.

Sometimes you get a job ad, and you submit your CV. There, if the ad is good, you can tailor.

Sometimes a recruiter asks for your CV, without a specific position in mind. Sometimes you just publish your CV somewhere. What should you tailor, and how?

If you want/need a new job I'd tailor it for whatever I felt would be easiest to land while still being interesting enough to consider.

If you're not really looking I'd tailor it for whatever job I'd really really want. You never know, but even if that dream job isn't available a CV like that will emphazise what you're truly passionate about. It might lead to something great

Read this for an insight on what counts:

https://steveblank.com/2011/08/05/bonfire-of-the-vanities/

Point is, the purpose of a CVis to get yourself an interview. Nothing wlse counts. Optimize it accordingly. Keywords (for computerized pre-screens and HR). Short (for all). Results (for the hiring manager).

Unless you want to be a permanent part of the faceless bigcorp IT job shopping underclass. For those jobs, you need to take exactly the opposite advice.

This is why I structure the main meat of my CV by projects relevant to the position.

Sure, I have a list of all dunno-how-many programming languages I kinda used, and DB-engines and other crap so techies can satisfy their curiosity about the strange tech they might look for.

But I consider it much more useful to have a bunch of projects I did that are relevant to the position, what tech was involved, and how the tech was involved. I consider that a lot more valuable than a dumb list of stuff I might or might not have used less or not more or whatever. Especially if that list already display a level of self-reflection.

In the experience part of my resume I provide a reverse chronological list of jobs, with bullets that explain my responsibilities and achievements.

Thanks for your suggestion on planning and leading, those are easy to forget (as is elicitation of requirements I guess)

Wouldn't mixing tech/skills with job positions make it more confusing?

Remember that you're writing a sales brochure about yourself, not a biography or index card. Nearly every CV that comes in will look identical. You stand out by making your selling points easy to find, instead of forcing me to look for them.

Examples:

* Used Angular and Rails to build an intranet application used every day at Acme Inc by over 200 people, increasing efficiency at the company by 150%. Features included uploading and sharing documents, with commenting system and email notifications.

* Optimised a Java algorithm in the backend of Foobar Corp's service to increase response time by 200%, delivering business value of $60,000 per year.

Here's my fairly up-to-date CV if you want a complete example: http://dblo.ws/cv You sound like you're a better programmer than me, so you should have plenty of good achievements.

Thanks for sharing!

But a question: Is your CV battle tested? What I mean is, having significant experience already and I assume industry connections, do you find that your CV is what gets your foot in the door for an interview?

To put it another way, do you find that after a certain point, CVs simply don't matter?

I can't say definitively as I haven't done any kind of "split-test analysis", and clearly there's a lot of selection bias in that I tend to speak only with recruiters who like my CV. Also, when going for a specific job, I edit it to prioritise the relevant bits.

For the type of jobs I want, in London, I do need a good CV. I also need a StackOverflow profile, industry connections (which I tend to make through meetups and conferences) and a portfolio. I should really have a blog as well. But I'm simply too small a fish in too big a pool to get by without a good CV.

I agree about making selling points, however, the examples you provided there with metrics can't be easily derived and I see them often as being emphasized. One could work in a multidisciplinary large team, or help implement a test automation framework whose value cannot be expressed in dollars, however, for the team and the product owner it's of the tremendous importance and value. This is especially valid for any large, long term project that's starting from scratch.

edit: extra word

If they could be easily derived, we'd all be doing it all the time. Spend some time doing it before you apply for your next job (or salary review) and you might be pleasantly surprised at how well the conversation goes. I linked to "How to Measure Anything" in another comment, and that's a good read - https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Measure-Anything-Intangibles-Bu....

If you really can't find a way for your current job, then say how many downloads your open source project has got. Or how many comments or page views your blog gets. For some reason, employers get excited when I tell them "I'm in the top 3% on StackOverflow". (Yes, I know how ridiculous that sounds.)

But that guy who earns twice as much you and does half the work? This is what he does. He talks in the language of the people who decide his salary, and that language involves specific numbers that matter to the business.

> increase response time by 200%

"Increase"? So now getting the response takes 2x as much time as before? Hardly an achievement... ;-)

EDIT: Also, things like these are hard to quantify (and verify) and even harder to come by - you can work for years without ever being in a situation where your work "increased something by 200%". I have a feeling that many people will read your advice as bullshitting your way through the CV-based selection, to maximize the chance of getting an interview, where you can explain all the details. Which, unfortunately, is not that bad a tactic - but I don't think it's what you had in mind.

You're absolutely right! That's another thing - always get someone to proofread for you.

> bullshitting your way through the CV-based selection ... I don't think it's what you had in mind.

That's _exactly_ what I had in mind, though I might phrase it as "honing your sales pitch". On something like a CV, you should always be happy to lose a little accuracy and completeness to gain some clarity. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up, but you do need to phrase yourself carefully to highlight your strong points.

You'd be surprised at what you can quantify. See "How to Measure Anything (https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Measure-Anything-Intangibles-Bu... for some ideas. Measurables are the language of those who hire you (and decide your salary) so learning how to show this kind of stuff is essential.

* What was the conversion rate on that page you made before and after?

* How long did it take staff in your company to complete that process before and after you rebuilt it? How many hours have you saved the company?

* How many bugs were reported per day for that module before you fixed it, and how much did it cost the business to process them?

Bullet unique achievements. Responsibilities will be better in a few sentences in paragraph form before the bullets.

The again, some great VCs I've seen included a section that was explicitly called "Keyword Stuffing". Sign of the times... If CVs weren't scanned using keyword search things might be different, but it's unfortunatly only going to get worse in the short term.

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