Unilever Buys Dollar Shave Club for $1B | Hacker News Reader

Unilever Buys Dollar Shave Club for $1B

nytimes.com

116 pointscoloneltcb93 comments

Interesting post by David Pakman on the deal - really love his investment thesis.

https://medium.com/@pakman/dollar-shave-club-how-michael-dub...

Curious what it sold for - I guess they were doing close to $200m in revenue. My guess would be in the $400-500m range.

The linked article said that they had 3 million subscribers. Pretty impressive for a 4 year old company. 3 million credit cards on file, 3 million payments.

It sold for $1 billion dollars. Youtube says their channel has 35,002,980 views, so that would make about $28.57 per view the selling price.

$330 per user? Is that a good price for customers buying cheap razors?

I'm a guy. I shave a bit. I've been, and continue to be, totally astounded how DSC is a business, let alone a successful one. No matter your preference for DE vs these fancy multi-blade rigs, just uh, go to Amazon and buy? "Subscribe and Save" if you have an issue buying more when you run low?

What's the attraction?

I never saw the appeal either! I've always battled against any sort of subscription service or regularly-purchased items that I deem too high price. Gillette razors, though very well built, were always too expensive ($2+ per razor) for what they are. I then moved to safety razors which I found did a great job. I could get these for as cheap as $0.05 each (though you probably want to pay a little more for quality). Shortly after DSC came out, someone found that they were sourcing their razors from a Korean manufacturer - and that you could just buy those products without the subscription for way less! Is the DSC premium really worth the convenience?

It's the packaging. It might be the same crap as the cheap stuff on Amazon, but it doesn't look like it.

Zulily sold for $2 billion with $200mm in revenue(and declining).

Edit: To add more color. P&G bought Gillette for $40 billion on $4 billion in rev.

Uhh...Zulily sold to QVC for $2.4 billion with somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.3 billion in yearly revenue.

http://www.geekwire.com/2015/zulily-sold-to-qvc-for-2-4-bill...

Old fashioned safety razors are still very much a thing [0], 30$ for a handle and another 30$ for 100 blades, I switch blades every 2 weeks.

I bought an even-older-fashioned straight razor for $75 very nearly fifteen years ago, and it's still working just fine. I've spent more on strops since then.

2 weeks! I switch every 2 days. Love the sharp blade feel.

I've heard that the dullness is caused by corrosion more so than cutting anything... the recommendation was to store the blade in alcohol to prevent corrosion and keep it sharp.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?

I would say it's use, and in my experience it depends on the blade.

Most recently I bought a 100 pack of each of Feather and Derby blades (the latter were so cheap, it was hard to resist...). The Derby literally blunted during the shave, whilst a Feather remains acceptably sharp for (i.e. starts tugging after) about a week of daily shaves.

You can tell the difference when you change the blade and there is slightly less tug.

I've used Gillete II disposables all my life, other brands don't shave me and more blades don't improve and are more expensive. I switched to safety blades a few weeks ago, I still don't get it right, got a sampler collection of blades, none of them can shave my 2-3 days old beard except for Feather (they barely cut my hair), which from time to time cuts me a lot. Are you supposed to loose the handle a bit so the blade has some wiggle room and therefore cuts more?

Problems are usually technique, razor, brush and cream. DE shaving needs a bit more effort.

Technique - are you using the right angle (experiment) and pressure (none - the mere weight of the thing should be enough)? Check videos if necessary. Are you making enough lather? Leaving it on long enough? Good technique sort of happens with experience.

Razor - is it a good one? I've owned a few cheap razors and never managed to make them work, something to do with the proportions. The blade has to stick out just so and the safety bar (or comb) be of just the right size. My two current ones are Merkur 12C and 42C, the former for when I'm paying attention, the latter for speed. I'm getting a Muhle R41 for fun.

Brush - do you own a good one? If on a budget, the other poster's Reddit wiki has a lot of good suggestions for boar and synthetic options ("budget" badger is not a good idea). This is important to get a good lather.

Many "starter packs" include a low quality brush and razor leading to bad first experiences.

Cream/soap - it's amazing how many are on the market and simply do not do their job. You have to keep trying until you find one that works with the water in your area to produce a slick, lasting lather. For me personally dealing with Singapore water the best are Godrej blue tube (menthol), Arko and Proraso.

On wiggle room: I tried it with the 12C after reading somewhere about how the "old guys used to do it" and guess what, not only does it not work but you will get nicked. The less wiggle room the better.

Feather blades changed my life.

Feather blades <3

Feathers are okay, but I somehow have way better results with Gillete 7'O Clock's (the sort in the yellow boxes). Cleaner shaves and more comfortable during use.

Anyone reading this comment thread curious about trying shouldn't just go with feather because crdb likes them or gillete 7 o clocks because sithadmin likes them. Different blades can make a huge difference and different people have different results. Pick up a blade sampler pack and try a bunch, pretty much every shaving store/amazon has them.

This is because people have different types of skins, and even for the same skin - depending upon time of day it could be soft or rough. Also the shaving cream/oil matters for the shave. Thats the reason why Trundle advises to try different blades. Whats good for one, might be bad for another person. IMHO most important factor which most people overlook is actually the angle of the shave. They blame it on the blade, instead of correcting their technique.

I've always wondered why there might be a difference for blades.

Creams and brushes, sure. If you have very soft, sensitive skin and soft straight sparse hair, you won't enjoy a hard brush and you won't need as thick a lather as someone with thick curly hair, so you might prefer a softer brush (less "backbone"). And some people might have adverse reactions to lanolin or find menthol irritating rather than refreshing.

But a blade's sole job is to cut hair, for which, presumably, the only quality required is sharpness, preferably retained for as long as possible. Aside from a less sharp blade being less of a pain on someone with softer and sparser hair, I can't see how blade experience would vary from person to person. What's your (or grandparent's) view?

I haven't done any testing on this but the corrosion hypothesis seems plausible. I wouldn't store it under alcohol because there's generally some dissolved water/oxygen/salt in there which would cause corrosion. Oil immersion or even a light coat after use would probably work better and alcohol at preventing corrosion.

Store it in mineral oil.

Sort of true, but at the price taking the blade out of the handle and storing it isn't really worth it.

Every shave for me or I bleed like a pig

I'm interested in getting this type of razor. Is there a standard? Interchangeable blades?

Most razors are for double edged blades. All double edge blades are interchangeable.

My understanding is that there are also single edged razors that don't work with double edged blades, but they are way less popular. /r/wicked_edge has a guide here [0] basically, buy a Vintage Gillette Super Speed Razor on ebay (or really anything you want, handles can't be that different, they're just 3 pieces of metal) and a pack of sample blades on tryablade.com

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/wicked_edge/wiki/de_kit

https://www.reddit.com/r/wicked_edge/comments/4exeep/beginne...

The only single edge razors I know of are the old straight edge razors (think the old west razors, http://www.westcoastshaving.com/Straight-Razors_c_9.html) and the newer shavette (https://www.amazon.com/Dovo-Shavette-Straight-Razor-Handle/d...) which is basically the straight edge razor but with a removable blade. I haven't heard either being refered to as a single-blade razor, though.

You can buy single edge razors for craft.

Here's some for window scraping: https://www.amazon.co.uk/BOHLE-Spare-Blades-Laminated-Scrape...

Here's some that claim to be single edge and for shaving: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gem-Personna-single-stainless-blade...

Excellent first link, which led me to their "to avoid" list. It mentions that "Soapworks Ltd" is now making shaving soap for various companies, including Trumper, and that this soap does not lather.

I've always found the reviews for Trumper soap incomprehensible as it never lathered and if by miracle some lather was produced, it would not stay longer than half a minute...

I have one that I purchased some years ago. Basically they all use the exact same type of blade, which looks like this: http://www.techsnippets.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/best-...

Basically the old razor blades that appear in movies when people have to cut themselves :)

The biggest difference from modern razor blades, other than taking up much less space, is that they are manufactured by different companies and so there is real competition, which makes them massively cheaper.

That said I still haven't been able to get near as good a shave with them as I do with the Gillette power thing that I have, which annoys me.

Strange that no one has mentioned Rockwell [1]. I use the original model in the shower without soap. I use Shark blades and they have been better than the Astra I had. [1]: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rockwell-model-t-razor-bl...

Interesting! I have an old Gillette which has the exact same design. I picked it up for $5 at some thrift store. Cleaned it, sterilized it and it's been great for years.

My current razor (seldomly used as I'm bearded now) is a Weber DLC coated DE razor. It works nicely and doesn't get gummed up with cut hair.

I bought a handle from eBay for $1.50 shipped from China. The most expensive thing was the brush, which is (or, at least claims to be) badger hair. That was $12 shipped.

My understanding is that different blades suit different complexions. For example, the platinum blades I've tried are too sharp and irritated.

Get a sampler with a few dozen blades for $10-$15. Then get the blade you like for $20 for 100 blades.

I would have to caution against a cheap safety razor handle. The gap between razor and the guards around it are very key. Once I switched from a cheap handle to a [$30 Merkur](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NL0T1G/ref=oh_aui_sear...) the experience was much improved. I still use the cheapest blades I can find at [$8/100 blades](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NL0T1G/ref=oh_aui_sear...)

I have this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011L8WJIA/

I'm very satisfied. Not coming apart is a significant feature. The case is nice too; I've used it several times to look at the back of my head.

I haven't found any blades that don't work. As far as I know they're all the same.

I love my butterfly too! It's a different brand with a similar mechanism.

That's the great thing about double-edged razors: you can recognize the correct blade on sight. The box is distinctive as well. Meaning you'd have to try really hard to buy the wrong blade. I mean really hard, given that a blind person could buy the right blades by feel.

Yea, nothing could go wrong in that scenario....

Yep, you want "double-edged razor blades."

$30 for a handle? they are 2-5 on aliexpress

I've shaved with those sub-$10 razors and a $30 Merkur razor - the difference is not negligible. The Merkur's body is more solid, heavier, and generally feels better in my hand. I can get a decent shave with either, but I stick the the more expensive one at home and take the other when I travel.

Are those ones as nice? Serious question, it seems silly to compromise on something that you're going to use daily (or close thereto) just to save $10-$20 (once you factor in shipping). Then again if you can't tell the difference, might as well get the cheaper one.

2.27 shipped http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Safety-Razor-Complete-Men-Sha...

vs 32 shipped https://www.amazon.com/VIKINGS-Double-Swedish-Platinum-Manli...

they look like roughly the same thing to me.

the other style, for under 3 shipped. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vintage-Retro-Useful-Durable-...

They sure look the same to me... I suspect that a lot of the 'niceness' will come from the feel of it in your hand, high-chrome stainless feels really solid whereas cheaper alloys can feel kind of tinny.

...oh wow, that price includes shipping outside the U.S.? I'm gonna buy one of the cheap ones, will report back how nice it is.

Edit: "This product can't be shipped to the selected region." After explicitly saying "Free shipping to $country" on the product page. Impression of AliExpress reduced somewhat.

search around, there are plenty in the 3-5 range. it's like ebay, different factories and wholesalers have their own listings.

A handle lasts a lifetime. No reason to skimp on it. Or shop on Aliexpress.

To add, DSC has raised 5 rounds for a total of $147.8 million. Seed was in 2012 by KPCB and A16Z. [0]

0 - https://angel.co/dollar-shave-club

Sorry to be ignorant, but how did he start his seed round?

How does one start a seed round or become involved in the process?

Thanks!

Having never raised a seed round, I'm not the right person to ask. However I'm sure there are plenty of blog posts/articles about this out there.

Even prior to this, it was cheaper to just buy from Dorco (DSC's supplier).

I have DSC to thank for looking into Dorco. I never bought DSC but heard they used Dorco. I've hated shaving my entire life because I always used an electric or shitty Target brand razors. I also tried safety razors and they were worse for me than Target despite trying everything to make it better. A nice Dorco makes so much of a difference. Shaving is now just sort of neutral to me rather than negative.

Stocked up on a year supply of Dorco in December I think when they have 25% off. I use a new razor every few shaves guilt free because they're cheap enough.

It is funny how every time someone talks about Dollar Shave Club as a brand/business model, most of the comments are about Dorco. Lifestyle brand focuses on a man, that is something really hard to archive.

Gillette spends 600 million years on marketing to try to archive this. BTW, PG has bought Gillette for 57 billion 10 years ago.

Well, Gillette has their own product that they have spent billions on R&D and manufacturing. DSC is not even white label, there's not the slightest alteration to the Dorco product. They're just repackaging and selling individual units, identical to drugstore Dorcos.

Sure, DSC is a phenomenon, but their product is Dorco blades, U.S. mail, and some brown packaging.

They have their own product because they are an industry. DSC isn't.

Another win for the Los Angeles startup scene!

So I guess the subscription fad isn't disappearing anytime soon.

How does Dorco (or DSC) compare with Harry's shavers? I use the latter and just curious.

I did not like the Dorco 4 blade but the 6 blades are OK. But I have a slight preference for Harry's both because the blades seem solid and sharp and I like how the head pivots on the face. The one thing that is a slight problem is that when I just use shave oil (like the Honest brand) the residue is sometimes hard to fully rinse out. Harry's finally came out with a grippier handle so that's better now, too. I like the shave cream/lotion but the gel smells like Axe (disgusting).

Dorco's top of the line blade (Pace 6) is almost identical to Harry's blades, but are around 50 US cents cheaper per blade.

Dorco 6s at Amazon are $1.67 when you buy 24. Harry's (which I prefer) are $1.75 when you buy 16 (shipped free).

Don't buy Dorco from Amazon. Buy directly. The shipping is still free.

Good point, you can save about 35c per blade. But also the 6 Plus is probably the better comparison which is $1.75 per at the Dorco website in qty of 24.

A few years ago Unilever partnered with Shick to launch Axe razors to compete with P&G. That may not have worked as well as they'd hoped, thus the purchase of DSC.

http://adage.com/article/news/unilever-sharpens-axe-razor-la...

i wonder what his ownership is... $1b cash acquisition is serious.

I heard they aren't profitable? Is that true?

For those visiting, let's give our traffic to someone who values their raeders, doesn't serve them malware, and doesn't auto-play videos...someone other than Fortune: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-20/unilever-b...

What a disgusting website (fortune.com).

Autoplays a video in the article below the one I'm reading, makes me think I'm crazy to hear Paul Ryan discussing politics from my speakers.

Try to hit my mouse button to go back to HN and it won't release me from my captivitiy.

All while running uBlock Origin. Just disgusting. Congrats to Dollar Shave Club.

I am running both uBlock Origin and NoScript and the website still found a way to annoy me: it gets Firefox Reader stuck, so that I am supposed to read the article in their terrible layout.

With FF and UO, I set all videos to be click to play. Including HTML5 video. It took one website for me and now no more random audio like Fortune's site.

If you use firefox, you can stop autoplay videos by going to about:config and setting media.autoplay.enabled to false.

Mods, can we please change the URL to http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/business/dealbook/unilever... since it is much more informative?

Sure. Thanks!

Url changed from http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/unilever-buys-dollar-shave-clu....

Holy shit, what am I doing in software?

Uhhh?

Let me point you to http://fortune.com/unicorns/.

Will they simply close it down to protect their Gillette brand?

P&G owns Gillette, not Unilever.

I guess they think they can give P&G a run for their money, and $1B is a pretty cheap price tag to take a stab at it. They've got quite an uphill battle ahead of them, though.

If they do I'll (and probably most other customers) be fine, we have a massive stockpile of unopened razor blades.

If you do run out, just buy them from Dorco (DSC's supplier) and avoid DSC's markup...

Gillette is a Proctor & Gamble company, not Unilever.

I don't think that would work out for them. Letting everyone know that someone was willing to pay Dollar Shave Club and then yanking it from the market would lead to a flood of imitators and new competitors.

A billion dollars for a razor company. What a marketing job they've done over the decades. I've never understood the shaving fetish. It irritates your skin, causes infections, and hides your beard.

Yes, I'm both a graybeard and a "neckbeard." (Never understood why the latter is pejorative, either. If you let your beard grow like it should, it will cover your neck.)

A question for all you young men who have grown your beards as part of the recent fashion trend and have gone back to shaving as the trend has faded, which was better? Lower maintenance? Less expensive? Yes, bearded, I'm sure. Stop following trends and do what you like.

There are those of us who can't grow beards in the first place, with any sad attempt at it looking like a miserable display of masculinity. And I'm sure there are millions of us out there. So we prefer to shave it to save us from our friends and girlfriends having to remind us to.

Well, yes, then shave. But if you can grow one at all, remember it grows in better as you age. I had holes in mine in my early 20s, but they were gone when I tried again in my early 30s.

In my mid-30s and still can't grow a beard. Better than in my 20s, but not by much. I really hate having to shave with a razor everyday.

The neckbeard pejorative comes from the trend where young men who are not just nerdy, but obnoxiously so, and who happen to also be overweight, are frequently seen growing a thin, scruffy beards only on their necks for the purpose of making their neck fat less obvious. It's a common enough correlation that a scruffy neck-only beard has become synonymous with being obnoxious. http://m.imgur.com/9xHMHMX?r

Also because they tend to have low testosterone, so the beard itself won't grow any higher than the jawline.

With time it improves - I had a similar beard in my 20s but now in my 40s it's all the way up.

Thanks for the explanation. I am a graybeard only then.

I think that shaving is a symptom of a weird mental illness: why would I want to remove the marks of adulthood & maturity from my body and look like a little boy instead of what I am, a man?

It's weird to me that shaving isn't seen by society as something restricted to a few deviants; rather, it's almost universal among adult males.

Remove any signs of masculinity, cut your hair short, and wear a symbolic noose around your neck every day for your hourly commute. These are the marks of a real free man.

What if I like following trends?

Then do it! With gusto!

Beards itch, I prefer clean shaven.

> Beards itch

With curly hair, I find that my beard only itches when the hairs are long enough to curl in. For me, there's a stage about two weeks in and a stage about two months in where it itches terribly, but after that it's fine.

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