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Comment by jacek | Hacker News Reader

I really like using Opera on Linux. It is the only full featured browser that has good, scalable UI and touch input support. And builtin adblocking + "battery saver mode" (developer version only) are really good additions. However, I do not trust Chinese companies with my data, I will need to switch to Firefox soon.

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I typically don't have this instinctive bias against Chinese companies (they manufacture lots of great products), but I've actually heard of the leading buyer, Qihoo 360. I remember they used to release some "security software" for Windows that disabled the builtin Windows update and replaced it with their own mechanism. They also used to have their own "secure browser" that was nothing more than a shell over Trident and Webkit. I'm not sure I can find references for those claims as this was a very long time ago. But I just navigated to their official website (they seem to have two, http://www.360.com and http://www.360.cn ) and guess what. The year is 2016 and a security company's official website doesn't support HTTPS. It doesn't work on my computer and hopefully this isn't due to China's firewall.

The problem isn't necessarily the companies, it's that the government is in league with the companies and/or outright owns and runs them, so people are concerned about the Chinese government having their data. I am too, and I imagine most people here are as well.

>The problem isn't necessarily the companies, it's that the government is in league with the companies and/or outright owns and runs them

But that is precisely why people distrust the companies.

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but for that matter, should I trust the American government? I'm not one of its citizens and deemed fine to spy on by American laws.

The American government has, historically, been more reluctant to disappear citizens whose viewpoints it disagrees with.

Good point, though I'm not physically in China either.

That hasn't stopped them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan...

In this one case perhaps. On the other hand, what would we have said if China attacked a middle eastern country in the name of "freeing it from a dictator" and it turned out their intelligence agencies tortured people there, or held "terrorists" on Chinese soil without any sort of trial? The barbarians!

There is enough mud to be thrown either way. As a country allied with the US (in general) I'm much less concerned by America's government, but the distrust of anything non-western... I mean, we are all people wanting to make a living in this world with much more in common than most are aware of.

It looks like the chinese were inspired by the CIA's use of 'rendition' to disappear people under extrajudicial pretense. Although I don't see the difference between China doing it in Hong Kong and the US doing it in Italy: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/world/europe/05italy.html

Italy is (and was) most certainly an 'allied' country to the US and it didn't stop them either.

May give Vivaldi a look. Made by many of the original Opera people.

https://vivaldi.com/

is this using electron?

Vivaldi is built on Chromium I believe

Doesn't look to be using Electron, as Vivaldi.app/Contents/Frameworks does not contain the Electron framework.

Thanks, I will give it a try again, but the last time I didn't like the UI.

The UI is great. But if you do not like it, customize it, either with massive CSS rewrites or the built inside customization options.

I just found this: https://vivaldi.net/en-US/teamblog/121-snapshot-1-3-501-6-cu...! (dev version). It allows full customization with CSS! That's great!

A little-known fact, but you can customize the Firefox UI with CSS too: http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.css

My Firefox currently looks like this: https://dump.thecybershadow.net/0177f0cecdf6ad3b65158858a210...

Would you share your userchrome.css file? Thanks.

Wow, that looks very cool. I'd also be interested in seeing the CSS behind that if you don't mind sharing?

https://vivaldi.net/en-US/teamblog/121-snapshot-1-3-501-6-cu...

But Vivaldi == "We use JavaScript and React to create the user interface with the help of Node.js and a long list of NPM modules. Vivaldi is the web built with the web.". Which again equals: do I really want to trust that browser knowing how NPM modules are basically the least secure thing ever?

a) that wouldn't affect a build, assuming they cache their packages, which they probably would since that event

b) didn't they change their unpublishing policy after that event?

Vivaldi is closed source.

...why? That doesn't make any sense.

"Competitive advantage" most likely. They built their own HTML-based UI on top of Chromium. So, their browser engine is just Chrome/Chromium/Blink, not something unique. Vivaldi can't even sync your bookmarks between devices yet (at least the last time I checked).

Not entirely: https://vivaldi.com/source/?lang=en

That's just their chromium patches. You can't build vivaldi from that.

I don't understand why people instantly go to the uninstall step when we are talking about the Chinese acquiring information, but the USG is fine. At least you most likely don't live in the country obtaining potentially incriminating information (if that is your worry).

Well, I do not use Chrome for the same reason. I am also in the process of migrating from Google to services in countries that respect privacy and do not share data with governments without a warrant.

Do you mind listing alternative services that you are looking at?

For me, DuckDuckGo replaced Google, FastMail replaced Gmail and SpiderOak replaced Google Drive. Some trade-offs, but nothing too painful.

I looked at SpiderOak...but their mobile apps really need some work..that's the only thing holding me back. How's your experience using SpiderOak?

ProtonMail looks interesting as well. They recently added support for custom domains.

I use DuckDuckGo for search, Kolabnow for email, OwnCloud (owncube.com) for files, calendar, contacts.

Unfortunately, I still use Google Services on my phone to use Google Play store for apps. I see no viable alternative for now.

It's a good question, and deserves a good answer:

The new Opera, i.e. every Opera after Version 15, is a Chromium fork.

That means it carries with it all the small and large behaviors like: Auto-updating. It also has literally no upside over using Opera v12, which still works fine for most things nowadays; and mostly no upsides over using just Chrome, or any other flavor of Chromium.

As such, getting rid of it after this acquisition gives only upside for the safety-conscious user.

One upside is that it is still actively developed. Opera 12.x is not and should not be used other than for testing at this point.

5000 steps back and 3 forward as a token to convert the headlines from "Opera ASA throws away browser" to "Opera ASA releases new browser" is not an upside, it's still a dirty lie. And Opera 12 is fine, has even recently received an SSL upgrade.

I'm still waiting for Chromium builds to work on Android, personally.

I trust the security acumen of the 'many eyes' who work on that project much more than Opera or Firefox. And Google doesn't vacuum up any data unless you volunteer it in Chrome. That's been proven.

You can switch also to Vivaldi.

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