Comment by bilbo0s | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bilbo0s | Hacker News Reader

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Gets worse than that actually. Much of this "prosperity" is driven by warlords stealing resources from places like Eastern Congo. And that's where everything Rwandan gets really nasty.

A guy named Laurent Nkunda once cleared an entire city of roughly 75 000 people. (Goma. Many of those were running so fast that children and the elderly were left behind. Which made for some pretty sad sights in the aftermath.)

I had a Swiss friend who was an observer (UN) in Congo and had to come stay with us in Houston to decompress before going back to her family in Lausanne. She had the misfortune of being assigned an inspection tour in the East. She toured the Congo Army lines... fine ... no major problems. As she approached the lines of Nkunda's forces she saw a wall built from dead bodies... and the wall was topped with the heads. Yeah... it only got worse from there.

Rwandans do some pretty nasty things around Africa to steal their wealth. But I suppose it's easy to overlook that stuff if you're making money. And to be fair... a LOT of people in Africa do these things. Of course, we don't usually do business with those people.

For an utterly different take on Nkunda,see here:http://exiledonline.com/nkunda-is-nkool/all/1

It is my opinion that it is a terrible statement on current affairs that this comment is ranked so high.

While all the things said here are true, they: a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990 ( http://abt.cm/QNKiYt ) b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand (Rwanda and its place in the current technology marketplace)

In my mind, a similar example might be reading something about say, for example the state of technology in Kenya and the top comment being about what happened there during the Mau Mau uprising. Yes, the correct would be factually accurate but that time does not represent the country today. And, most of all, WTF really? Stop with red herrings. The country is working like crazy to grow and develop and instead of "nice job getting from a where you were to b today", all you can offer is "yeah, but your dad and mom did terrible things 20 years ago".

Almost every nation in the world, developed or not, has parts of its history where its' peoples and governments did things - that they now deeply regret and would rather forget - as part of becoming the nations that they are today. It just happens that some, not all, African nations are going through those things in our lifetime.

We need to be fair in our positioning and evaluation of others especially if we perceive that they are making their way out of being on the low end of our assessment curve. No need to introduce extra huddles of history to the information we share especially if those hurdles are not contextually relevant.

Finally, the last sentence in that comment is worth some disassembly. - The first part: "Rwandans do some pretty nasty things around Africa to steal their wealth. But I suppose it's easy to overlook that stuff if you're making money. And to be fair... a LOT of people in Africa do these things. Of course, we don't usually do business with those people."

Please share some evidence around this. Else, STFU with opinions that hold no ground. And even if it were true, how is it different from, for example, the way western economies deal with African and Middle East nations that have natural resources they are looking for. Don't these economies do "do some pretty nasty things around Africa to steal their wealth" Should Africa make a decision along the lines of " Of course, we don't usually do business with those people."?

My two cents, definitely written while wearing my heart on my sleeve.

Saved a screenshot of your quote on img just in case it goes AWOL because don't want to end up sounding like a nutjob if if it does. Link to original quote here http://imgur.com/aYjzkUE

"...a) happened more than 20 years ago in 1990..."

Nice try. Goma was cleared in fighting during the Nord-Kivu clashes in 2008. (Nkunda's forces opposed Army of DRCongo and UN Peacemaker contingent of roughly 17000.) Additionally, the theft of Congolese resources is ongoing.

"...b) have little or no direct bearing to the issue at hand..."

That depends on how one thinks.

Finally, with respect to the duplicity of Western Nations. You will get no argument from me. That doesn't make African nations less duplicitous though. The white man is not the only force for evil on the globe. Evil comes in all shades and hues.

>The white man is not the only force for evil on the globe

No, but he does it really professionally, including having created most of the mess in Africa in the first place. Most of those "states" where designed by colonialists in artificial (i.e. what colonial power controls what as opposed based on historically and culturally developed ethnic formations), and were usually created to contain 2-3 competing fractions in a "divide and conquer" approach, with the colonial and post-colonial powers playing (and arming) both sides... Add their support to all kinds of dictators, scum and lackeys and the undermining of efforts to clean the slate, boost local control, etc, and the result is what we have today...

>he does it really professionally

I couldn't agree with you more. It is lost on most people that African boundaries and political realities are a fairly recent construct. The majority of African states as we know them today are no more than two generations old (c. 60 years). These boundaries are also, in many ways, an artificial creation that do not necessarily represent the pre-colonial and cultural realities of the numerous ethnic communities and interests that exist across Africa today. The legacy of this "divide and rule" approach cannot be over-stated and has been a driving force behind the continent's sad, sad state of affairs. Also, only a generation ago did the Cold War abate and with it, murderous proxy wars and political struggles in countries such as Angola, Mozambique, the DRC (and the wider Central Africa), Uganda, to name but a few. There are numerous explanations of and studies into the impact of colonization and the Cold War on ongoing conflicts and human rights abuses in Africa and, honestly, I am no domain expert. Regardless, here are two sources that should suffice: Did Africa have any significance in the Cold War? [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1ju3e3/did_a... 'The Effects of the (End of the) Cold War on Central African Politics: How a Cold War turned into a very Hot One' [http://www.mo.be/en/article/effects-end-cold-war-central-afr...]. Of course, this does not free Africa's leadership from the responsibility of good governance, but it does add context to coldtea's argument.

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