Comment by simonsarris | Hacker News Reader

Comment by simonsarris | Hacker News Reader

Ataturk (first President of Turkey) was an officer and fiercely wanted Turkey to be secular. It seems more or less a rule for the Military to force elections if the head of state gets too Islamic.

> The military has had a record of intervening in politics. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed coups d'état in 1960, in 1971, and in 1980. Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamic-oriented prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997.

> On 27 April 2007, in advance of 4 November 2007 presidential election, and in reaction to the politics of Abdullah Gül, who has a past record of involvement in Islamist political movements and banned Islamist parties such as the Welfare Party, the army issued a statement of its interests. It said that the army is a party to "arguments" regarding secularism; that Islamism ran counter to the secular nature of the Turkish Republic, and to the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The Army's statement ended with a clear warning that the Turkish Armed Forces stood ready to intervene if the secular nature of the Turkish Constitution is compromised, stating that "the Turkish Armed Forces maintain their sound determination to carry out their duties stemming from laws to protect the unchangeable characteristics of the Republic of Turkey. Their loyalty to this determination is absolute.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Turkey#Military_in...

Making Turkey a bit odd, in that elsewhere the army seems to be the first to side with the religious people (no matter the religion involved).

Isn't Egypt's military also largely secular?

How about Pakistan's army? Secular or religious?

Secular

Army is secular; Navy is much less so, which seems weird.

Most of the major coups that come to my mind are the military preventing a government with a very extreme ideology from taking a country past the point of no return.

Usually it's something that takes place when the military itself is getting infiltrated and it either needs to act or be taken over by the ideology itself.

Usually the army in these situations is like a state within a state. The officers are educated at West Point and Sandhurst. They are nationalists.

Usually when the military sides with religious people, it's a sign of a weak state.

But this time they've waited too long. Erdogan become unbearable. Finally Turkey will return to the western society again.

>Erdogan become unbearable. Finally Turkey will return to the western society again.

interesting how, like in Egypt, an army taking down democratically elected president is a "return to the western society again"

Yes, indeed interesting.

Turkey and Thailand are out of the line here. Normaly a military putsch is considered undemocratic, but in those 2 not.

Does the army really care about secular or not? Or it's just an excuse to cease power?

What about the people?! Erdogan received a huge win in the latest elections AFAIK. I mean you can what you want about the man, but there's no European politician that comes close to his numbers in terms of vote percentage.

The AKP got 40% of the votes in the last parliamentary election, 9% down from the previous. Erdogan claimed outside interference, and with the AKP refusing to negotiate a coalition deal for the full parliamentary term, new elections were scheduled.

The november elections had its share of problems [1], but ultimately saw the AKP return to a 50% share.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_during_the_Turki...

The word is they're affiliated with the "Gülen movement". Apparently an Islamic movement. Is that true? Anybody can provide a tldr on their likely views wrt major policies?

Gulen is a moderate imam, currently in American exile after Erdogan's administration labeled him a terrorist. No charges have been filed, but the Turkish government has been pressing for his extradition.

Fethullah Gulen is a Turkish Islamic religious leader in exile in the Poconos, founder of a movement called Hizmat, an Islamic offshoot, also known as Gulen.

Gulen's followers represent a large portion of Turkey's police and attorneys, at least before the latest moves of President Erdogan.

Current Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan used the Gulen movement as allies to gain power, as they both shared the goal of abolishing the existing secular character of the state.

However, once in power, Erdogan turned on Gulen, attempted to purge his followers from the police and judiciary, then used the movement as a "fifth-column" type scapegoat.

Recently, Erdogan has moved to consolidate power, taking steps that would allow him to cow the legislative and judicial branches. It appears he was trying to install himself as "President for Life."

It's very important to note that secularism in Turkey was born at the point of a bayonet. In contrast to many regional Islamic governments, Turkey's government is both secular and democratic, due to the founding father of Turkey, Kemal Ataturk. While Ataturk was a brutal dictator, he also used that power to rebuild a Turkish national identity, secularize the government, and eventually transition to democracy.

Turkey's secular and Westernized form of government facilitated its membership within NATO. NATO, an organization designed to contain Soviet influence, has been very uneasy with Erdogan heading a state that can invoke Article 5 of the collective defense pact. In particular, his recent moves of downing a Russian fighter, have made tensions rise.

While events are in flux, and precise reasons for the coup are unclear, Erdogan did announce yesterday that he was realigning himself with the government of Assad in Syria, a Russian ally, which could be seen as anti-NATO. However Turkish institutions and governance are so severely degraded that domestic reasons could be purely to blame.

Gülen is the imaginary orwellian foreign enemy AKP made up to scare its voters.

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