IE9 Won't Support Windows XP | Hacker News Reader

IE9 Won't Support Windows XP

news.yahoo.com

19 pointsecaron31 comments

I don't get why people are upset that IE9 may not run on XP. Did they think that running XP is a perpetual entitlement to be able to run all future Microsoft software? What can IE9 do that's so important that IE8 or any of the competing browsers can't do?

I don't think it's people running XP who are disappointed. If this news means much to you you're probably tech-savvy enough to have installed a more capable browser.

Developers must be disappointed because this means the millions of non-tech users running XP (and not interested/capable in upgrading to 7) won't be automatically upgraded to a browser that can run websites built on modern technologies. Consumer-oriented HTML5-powered webapps will continue to require kludges or hacks or concessions to work for many users, and will keep requiring these until a critical mass of grandpa- or aunties-owned computer machines break and grandpas and aunties go to the Best Buy and get new ones.

Having to support decrepit platforms that nobody wants to program on anymore is part of being a developer. They will change, but they'll always be there.

But must they make it worse every time they touch a browser?

To turn the logic around here. If MS should feel obligated to make sure all its software works on windows XP, then shouldn't web developers continue to feel obligated to make sure all their websites work on IE6?

That's a bizarre statement; MS wrote XP, and it wrote IE6. Why would MS supporting or failing to support its own software have any relation on third parties supporting MS's software?

The point I am making is that this logic doesn't work, MS has no obligation to make IE9 run on XP. MS continues to release patches for both XP and IE6, and that's all the obligation it has in terms of support. They have no obligation to release new browsers for old operating systems.

It's not even a browser at this point, it's simply a closed test suite.

I don't see how this will affect anything. Those who are still using IE6 had plenty of time to upgrade to IE7/8, what makes you think that once IE9 comes along, everybody will suddenly upgrade?

It's because this means all the PC users who stay on Windows XP will be perpetually using IE6/7/8. IE9 usage will only grow as adoption of Vista/7 picks up. In essence, IE9 will have slower marketshare growth and web developers will be forced to cater towards the XP-using masses for another 5 years or more.

I'd guess there are 3 types of people:

1) Those who just use computers as they come out of box. These users will have Windows 7/Windows Vista and therefore are capable of running IE9

2) Those tech savvy people who insist on installing XP. They are smart enough to install and use some alternative browser (fx/chrome)

3) Those who are using that 10 year old computer and are using it as it came from the box. These people are the problem (in addition to corporate droids)

Those who just use computers as they come out of box. These users will have Windows 7/Windows Vista

Most netbooks sold in the last few years have run Windows XP Home, and some continue to ship with it. Granted, many of the buyers probably fall under your type 2, but not all of them.

So, Chrome, Safari, and Firefox can run on XP and support HTML 5, but IE 9 can't? Wow. What a kick in the nuts. 10 more years of IE6.

The reason it can't run on Windows XP is because it uses some Windows Vista/7 APIs that aren't in Windows XP. HTML5 has nothing to do with it.

The point is that Mozilla, Apple, and Google have all built capable (HTML 5) browsers using the APIs Microsoft provided in Windows XP. If they can do it, why can't Microsoft?

Because they want people to buy their super fancy Windows 7 instead of running XP forever.

IE9 on XP won't fix the problem, because IE6 will still run on Windows 7.

IE6 is packaged with XP. A large part of why it's around is that people who bought XP couldn't be arsed to upgrade to anything better.

If some corporate IT department wants to upgrade to Windows 7 but still reinstall IE6 over it for some crufty legacy app compatibility, I think they'll probably have much bigger problems that would make the OS upgrade pointless altogether.

Granted, Windows 7 currently ships with IE8, so we'll still have the same problem for a while.

They will have to install ie6, some of them anyway, because there are a TON of applications out there built to IE6 that are years old with no one to support them and many of them have code bases that have disappeared.

It's a sad situation really. It's easier to install IE6 than rewrite the apps to work with another browser.

Targeting IE for "web" apps resulted in unupgradable windows-only apps plus a lie. The lie that they were "web apps". A cautionary tale about Microsoft lock-in causing damage to the web and to IT as a whole.

No it doesn't. I've tried to get IE6 working on win7 to do website testing, but gave up and use a program called IETester instead. There might have been some hacks or registry mods to get it to install and run on vista, but nothing works on win7 64bit.

Not necessarily. I had the same fear when I first heard about XP Mode, but now that I've had time to think about it, I don't think it's going to cause IE6 to linger around any longer than it otherwise would have. And, if we're lucky, it may even help get rid of it sooner.

XP Mode is limited to Professional and Ultimate/Enterprise versions of Windows 7. These aren't going to be the versions that consumers (and small businesses) are going to get when they buy a computer from Best Buy or Dell. When those people replace their aging computers, they'll get Windows 7 with IE8. And unlike when XP first came out, most new computers are configured to automatically download and install critical Windows updates (which includes new versions of IE)--so IE8 won't be the albatross is that IE6 has become. Most Windows 7 users will be upgraded to IE9 without even thinking about it. (In this sense, IE8 may be the shortest-lived version of IE to date.)

That means this is really only a concern for corporate users, where policies are dictated by budgets and IT departments, not a lack of basic computing knowledge.

One reason that many such companies force their employees to use IE6 is because long ago they developed custom intranets or other internal web-based applications targeting IE6 and they're not willing to spend the money to upgrade or replace them. And because no other browser comes packaged as an MSI (meaning they can't be centrally managed and deployed), their IT departments won't let them install Firefox, Opera, Safari, or Chrome. That only leaves IE--specifically, IE6. (Want to see an uptick in Firefox usage? Lobby to have Mozilla release Firefox as an MSI.)

Now, because of XP Mode, corporations can upgrade their users to Windows 7 without fear that they'll have to spend money upgrading or replacing their intranets/apps. And because Windows 7 comes with IE8 (which can't be downgraded), those companies are going to have to put policies in place to secure it to their liking. Their employees will then be able to use IE8 for the web at large and IE6 for their intranets/apps.

For that reason, many companies will be more likely to upgrade to Windows 7 sooner than they would have done so if XP Mode wasn't available.

It's worth noting that Chrome only runs on Mac OS 10.5 and better. I can't install it on the iBook we keep around, running 10.4.

Chrome is also intel-only, so even if you were running 10.5 on your iBook, still tough luck with ppc.

I guess this means if I want to not break the law I have to buy another, heavier os to VM for testing. Do I really have to buy win7 or vista just to test another substandard browser? (Screams at ms, shakes angry fists towards the heavens.)

It's up to web developers to take the plunge and decide to stop supporting IE6.

Stop complaining about having to support IE6/IEx, bite the bullet and just direct people to download a competent browser.

All they need is a flag which says 'This is XP, don't use those features'.

Considering that the IE ship train has been tied to Windows for the past several cycles and IE9 will ship with Windows 8, this is hardly surprising (at that time XP will be 3 releases prior).

Hah. Now there's a surprise. Just business as usual for Microsoft.

Microsoft is making a business decision that makes sense.

For them.

For those of us who prefer not to DRM our machines to death, XP is going to be around for some time to come. Most folks like us stopped using explorer long ago.

This decision helps open source browsers gain greater market share so I welcome it.

Anything Microsoft does that helps open source alternatives is win in my book.

Thanks MS!!!!

Erm.... Microsoft is a business. They are required by law to consider their shareholders' interests above all else.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com