Hacker News Reader

Comment by bduerst | Hacker News Reader

If we're going to go with anecdotal data here, I had an A/B test experience in St. Louis some years ago.

As a white intern, I was pulled over for a speeding ticket on the commute to work and just given a ticket. That same morning a cop pulls over a black intern for speeding on the same route, but before giving him the ticket he pulls the intern out of the car and pats him down on the side of the car.

In hindsight we should have compared the tickets to see if it was the same officer, but we were both wearing boring business casual attire.

View on HN

Another anecdotal story: I'm white, and been pulled over plenty. Never thought much of it. I lived in a mostly white nice neighborhood.

I was riding with a black friend, and when he was pulled over in the same town, it was a drastically different experience. He was pulled over for no reason, and ultimately got a ticket for "possible possession of drugs". We were told to leave the car, separated, and spent ~1 hour being drilled with questions.

A very eye-opening experience.

what on earth is 'possible possession of drugs'?

It's a lie he's telling. That's what that is.

Great question! It was thrown out of court in the end, but the cop really didn't have any reason to pull us over, and despite searching the whole car, he couldn't find any drugs. He had to write a ticket for something though, I guess.

I love speeding ticket anecdotes!

I’m white, and live in CO. I was traveling the day before Thanksgiving and traveled through South Fork, CO (which is at the bottom of a mtn. pass). I was just following the car in front of me (at a 200m distance), doing ~40mph. Apparently, the speed limit drops to 35mph for a short stretch in the ‘business district.' I saw him in my rear-view, pulled over, and he pulled-up beside me. He rolled down his window and told me to follow him because he had someone else to ticket (I was clocked at 43mph he said). He gave us both tickets that were $100/ no points if paid quickly, it’s a total racket.

Also, I’ve been pulled over ~15 times in the last 20 years (mostly in Boulder), and I’ve never left my hands on the wheel. I immediately go to my glove box and get my registration/insurance, then grab my license. By the time the cop gets to my window, I just hand over all 3 documents at once.

One time, I was doing 90mph through Denver at 4am for a Crispy Creme run as the designated driver. On I-25, I think the speed limit there was 55-60mph. He gave me a warning.

Those are some super cool stories that you just enthusiastically listed. Thanks.

Do any of these involve anyone other than just you? You know, that offer a comparison and are relevant to the discussion?

It seems that you are questioning the relevance of my contribution. I believe the relevance is that in mostly-white CO these 'rules' that everybody seems to parrot about dealing with cops don't apply. I don't have to leave my hands on the steering wheel. So, my (perhaps erroneous) conclusion has been that when there is little racial diversity, these problems don't seem as prevalent.

Edit: Just to be clear, I do not appreciate the antagonistic tone in your comment.

>my (perhaps erroneous) conclusion has been that when there is little racial diversity, these problems don't seem as prevalent.

Even then you would need to have a cop-experience involving other races, in areas of "little racial diversity" to make this conclusion -i.e. Your black friend and you (white) were treated no differently than the other times you were pulled over alone.

Your stories really only involve you, which is weird that you think they're relevant.

The "rules" often cited aren't because there will be a problem in most cases if you don't follow them. Instead, its because they will be problem in a very small (much <1%) of cases if you don't follow them, and the potential cost is very high.

(I'm not -- at least, not exclusively, or in general perception -- white, have lived in parts of CA with lots of diversity, and have often failed to follow the "rules" without problem -- and don't think any of that is unexpected even with the "rules" being valid.)

Yeah, but when you show me a video of a man getting shot by the police and you want me to show some sympathy, he better not be obviously resisting arrest. It's the "clean hands" principle. I feel bad, but I feel bad that nobody's there teaching these guys how to deal with cops in a civil manner that keeps you alive. Instead, we're just stirring the pot.

> nobody's there teaching these guys how to deal with cops in a civil manner that keeps you alive

Blaming the victim? Really?

That's what the protest in Dallas was about. That Philando Castile, an African american, was politely complying with police and was still shot and killed in his car with his fiance and her daughter.

It's interesting that you get to choose which victim I'm blaming. I didn't get to see the part of the video where Philando Castile got shot for doing nothing, so I can't really say that he was doing nothing. As silly as that last sentence sounds, it is you who is calling me the victim blamer in the absence of facts, strangely, while we are talking about bias.

If you re-read the comment, you'll see that I didn't choose anyone, and only referred to current issues. You know, these "facts" that you're eluding to that are absent from the conversation.

What is interesting is that you're choosing to deflect by accusing me of not knowing the "facts", even after you admitted to not knowing them (which qualifies as psychological projection). Perhaps you'd like to share these "facts" that justify your racially-based victim blaming instead?

If you re-read the comment, I wasn't talking about Castile: "he better not be obviously resisting arrest" - Alton Sterling. So, you can call me a victim blamer, erroneously. You can say it's racially based, erroneously. But you're the one with reading comprehension issues, Bud.

You might also want to note, that I'm clearly not blaming the victim. You yourself quoted it, "nobody's there teaching these guys how to deal with cops in a civil manner that keeps you alive". I'm not saying that Castile was to blame. I'm saying society needs to teach people to not do IDIOTIC things in front of police. And since this happens to people of all races, you saying it's racially based is completely baseless.

Sure, sure - just link which comment you were specifically referring to Alton Sterling and I'll re-read that. Otherwise you're psychologically projecting "reading comprehension issues" again, Micah.

You seem to be confused about what blaming the victim is, or you're intentionally trying to redefine it as "no, I was blaming society". It's interesting, because you're still trying to grasp the assertion that it's the behavior of the victim at fault for the the cops killing them.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com