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Ah, you are actually a "what about teh menz" commentor.

Do you even see the irony of "women should see what they can do rather than expect men to do it for them" immediately before telling me to go and research the woman who started the first refuge? I mean, you're clearly comfortable using single data points to make arguments, so why do you do a self-goal like that?

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White Ribbon. Started by men.

Women's refuge movement (and the Refuge organisation), started by a woman who is appalled at what feminists have done with it, because most of the women sheltered turn out to be violent themselves (and often more so than the men).

I wouldn't call WR 'one data point' when it's by FAR the most recognised product brand name in DV.

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