Apple iPad? How about a little German innovation instead | Hacker News Reader

Apple iPad? How about a little German innovation instead

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62 pointsbiafra83 comments

Few points... MHZ are (somewhat) irrelevant as a judge of actual CPU performance, supporting flash isn't really a positive thing, at least in my book, and certainly will kill the battery life unless adobe has pulled far, far better linux flash player performance out of wherever they were hiding it, and the lack of any mention of price for something that's supposed to ship sooner then the iPad makes me suspicious.

Let's hope Adobe is as interested in this device as they should be and help keeping the power consumption as low as possible.

I am a bit puzzled about the combination of Android and Air. I did not yet see any device doing both.

If Adobe isn't interested at this point then they have reserved their own special circle of hell.

Not hell, merely irrelevance.

The web standards (SVG, SMIL, etc.) are far more important. Having something that multiple parties are free to implement means that the problem space can be searched in parallel and much more efficiently.

Apple's competitors have always had them beat on the spec sheet. It's the user experience they can never match.

Yeah, there were a lot of feature grids and checkboxes presented as evidence to the impending failure of the iPhone when it was first introduced, apparently nobody learned from that.

The WePad looks like a fun device to tinker with, and I see potential for resellers or commercial use, but it's not playing on the same field as the iPad (yet).

That's very subjective. It's true though that Apple has been able to sell products that generally have lower specs then their price equivalent. But if that is because of marketing, killer applications, user experience or something else isn't really clear. They're definitely not dominating any market based on number of devices though.

What I'm most curious about in the tablet space is if Linux, with Android, MeeGo, Chrome OS etc. will be able to shine. As many tablets will be ARM based, there will be less competition from Microsoft. With a decent distribution platform we might see a situation where developers will be able to reach more devices with Linux than with iPad/iPhone OS. Especially from a global perspective.

Apparently this is already part of their naming scheme, but 'WePad' makes them sound like such a knock-off. I wouldn't want to be seen as a knock-off of a brand as recognizable as Apple.

And Neofonie makes them sound like, well...

It doesn't sound that bad in German.

I would have preferred "DasPad" though

I am sure, that will be the name for the international release. (Because DasPad sounds absolutely phony in German. But at least the grammatical genders match.)

And all producers should probably stop naming their phones phones, because that is reminiscent of iPhone? If it is only the name that is a problem, I can live with it.

That's not the part that sounds like a knock-off. Take the 'i' in iPhone or iPad as the first person pronoun and the names wePhone or wePad sound like puns, like they're actually referencing Apple's products.

It never stopped Apple from delivering products which actually infringe on others copyrights, not just sound similar (iPhone-> Cisco, iPad->Fujitsu).

I think wePad is a great name, if Apple's legal-hounds can leave them alone.

I think the term "pad" describes a product like this very well.

Apple was now first, but after the wePad, xPad, multiPad, netPad, etc., related names will just be other generic terms...

I'm not sure about that. My girlfriend and her coworkers complained about the name instantly because of similarity to a certain female product.

It's odd that the iPad invites that comparison, but the ThinkPad and CruchPad apparently did not (at least not that I recall).

Probably the "pad" is more dominant in iPad than in CrunchPad or ThinkPad.

Eh. People love to talk and repeat jokes they heard on the TV or the Internet. If someone was actually offended/upset about the name they certainly wouldn't be happily joking about it in public. Just a classic "I have nothing else to say so let me repeat something I heard once" type of reaction I suspect.

It does make sense, considering the notepad vs a notebook. Slate harkens to the old single room school days. Frame might make you think it's only for pictures or be hung on the wall.

Pad's pretty good I suppose. People will get over the hygiene aspect of it.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/PADD

Yes, a very good name.

Yay! I was fairly sure I would only have to wait a little while for an open device in the same space as the iPad!

I'm waiting for a good portable tablet that someone has verifiable root access to. As long as I can get root (and preferably compile a kernel), then everything else should fall into place as root access is the ultimate in customizability. I hear Android provides this, but I don't know.

If we have root access, we have control.

Android has a root user, of course, but the person controlling the touch screen doesn't need to be root. So if the device manufacturer doesn't want you to control your own property, they can ensure that.

Archos does this with their Archos 5 with Android tablet. They think they are Apple and are going to one day have a movie store, so for DRM reasons, you are locked out of your own device. They also won't release any documentation on how to program the DSP, so you can't replace the horribly broken media player software they include.

So basically, Android will not save you. The company needs to not be on a power trip, and they need to care about openness. It unfortunately seems that any company that can afford to design nice hardware is unable to hire anyone with a clue about software, so my guess is that this will never happen.

It's too bad, too, because the Archos 5 is an amazingly good piece of hardware. It just has buggy software that I could be fixing instead of whining about here!

I remember being surprised when I first figured out that Apple didn't really bother with license keys for upgrades to OS X, and academic upgrades are free or have hardly any license fees. I was also surprised when the Intel version wouldn't run on non-Apple hardware, when they could easily have sold it for use on Dell boxes. It was explained to me that Apple is a hardware company. They want to make a great operating system and great applications so you will buy more of their hardware. It was the first example I saw of software selling the hardware, where generally the two were sold separately.

Mobile devices has always been a little different. The hardware is very different from device to device and screen realestate is precious, so each handset has its own software. Some might argue that the reason many mobile phones have crappy software is because the companies are hardware companies tacking on some software, but it's always been that the software and the hardware are sold together and are under heavy constraints.

Until recently. Now we have much more powerful devices in our pockets and our purses. When your "phone" can run a browser, email, games, and media player, you can start thinking about what other software you could run. We have enough power and flexible inputs such that we can handle the overhead of generic software. Suddenly there's the opportunity for phone hardware and software to become separate markets.

It would if it there wasn't the rise of media stores and DRM. To have good DRM you have to own the whole device. To sell the media producers on digital distribution you have to have DRM.

I think that the popularity of these media stores (ebooks, movies, music) is the largest reason why we won't have root access to our (semi-)mobile devices any time soon.

And that's why I think iTunes is locking me out of my tablets.

I can't wait until someone comes out with a tablet that has a camera on the backside, so you can do proper Augmented Reality. Imagine being able to walk around with a window into another world - now that's revolutionary.

I can't imagine many people would take to strolling around with a large LCD screen poised in front of their faces.

What if it was in your face?

If you walk around, interacting with the world through a tablet with a camera, it may end up there, courtesy of <random person's name here>.

I was looking for that picture of Peter Griffin walking around with a cardboard TV cutout strapped to his head but I couldn't find it. So this is all you get.

I can't wait until someone comes out with contact lenses with built-in displays and cameras.

can't you do that on iPhones already? :/

Or you could just get a regular camera/video cam and hack the firmware to show cool stuff.

Yes you can, just tiny screen, tiny processor.

I can't wait until someone comes out with a tablet that has a camera on the frontside, so that I can video-chat from the couch. This would be really awesome.

can't you do that with a laptop?

I can do it even with a desktop computer and a 29" monitor :) It comes down to the matter of convenience.

You mean like the WePad?

I've heard complaints from several (and happen to agree) that augmented reality sounds awesome in theory, but in practice you feel like a weirdo standing there holding a device in front of your face, aiming around the town square. I can only imagine how much of a jerk I'd feel like waving my tablet around. Perhaps that's just "my problem", but I think it's got a decent chance of preventing AR from ever being anything but a novelty. Integrate it invisibly (to others) into a contact lens or stylish glasses and you've REALLY got something, though.

(On the other hand, just as I didn't predict that AR would feel as weird to do in public as it does on a phone, maybe it's less bad in practice when done on a tablet with both arms. More like a map.)

And talking on the phone in public felt weird at first, too. Now you can overhear strange one-sided conversations everywhere.

If only it was just a piece of hardware Apple are launching. Its so much more than that, its the whole experience. Comparing physical hardware specifications with a company like Apple doesn't really show you the whole picture. I am not saying it can't be done and I wish these guys every success.

Yeah the "whole experience" of reality distortion field.

The success of the iPhone has shown that it's not about having the most features, it's about doing things right.

Face it, we're disconnected with reality. Most people don't WANT to worry about file hierarchies, searching for the right software suite, etc. They don't care about sandboxing and the App Store gatekeeper model.

In fact, as long as the App Store isn't more expensive than elsewhere, I'd say they even prefer it. You might think that with Apple taking a 30% cut it would be, but they make it so simple to sell software that the greater supply results in a significant downward push on prices.

I still do hope it fails though. Apple is pure evil (and I say this as a macbook owner).

Apple designs great interfaces. I accepted the interface of 'smartphones' as an unpleasant necessity until the first time I tried an Iphone. The interface design was a spectacular improvement, on the scale of going from a bicycle to an automobile for transportation.

While I didn't buy an Iphone as I don't care for the rest of the Apple package, their products are mostly the pinnacle of interface quality. I do own an Ipod, although not until I had software that allowed me to really own it.

I think Apple's reputation for interface design is overhyped. iTunes is a bit of a nightmare. The last iPod I owned was also annoying to use (first one with click wheel).

Is this a real device? Or is it still just a 3D Max sketch and a Fact Sheet PDF?

One of TC commenters said he saw it on CeBit, but he did not sound nearly as excited as he should've if the specs are true.

There are already devices with this kind of hardware around. The Archos 9, tablet Thinkpads, etc.

Making a tablet good is all about software. Windows XP failed. Windows 7 is meh. iPad OS will probably do well. Android could go either way. (I have used android in a virtual machine, and it's not a good paradigm for devices that aren't phones, IMO. So a lot of work is necessary to make it work nicely on a tablet.)

I was excited too until I saw the battery life.

To me, a tablet needs to have the stamina to last at least a whole day without being charged. Six hours isn't quite there.

What consumer is going to use their tablet all day?

Well if you buy into the idea of doing productive work on it (which Apple bent over backward to push during the unveiling), then all day shouldn't be out of the question.

But personally, I just read a lot (research papers, online, and recreationally), so something that would get me from 6pm to 3am without running out of battery is a requirement.

You're not going to be near a power outlet from 6pm to 3am?

It says they're trying to compete with the kindle too, but I couldn't tell if the WePad can do e-ink?

Since when do kindle competitors have to have e-ink?

If I was going to read an entire book on a monitor, it would have to be e-ink.

I'd read it on anything without a backlight, it doesn't necessarily have to be e-ink. (Mirasol or Pixel Qi come to mind.)

Not all people are like you.

I can't wait for an iPad/iPad-like device with a nice back light for reading. I can't read printed text below about 14pt comfortably, and I can't read e-Ink at any point size comrotably. I've had to resort to reading ebooks on the desktop, or laptop, where I can enlarge the font AND have the back light. I know a lot of people don't want the light for reading, but for a lot of visually impaired users, the light is essential to being able to see the text.

Interesting. I do have to wonder about the video card, though, as the iPad boasts a bit of a beast for such a small device. And I have to say that battery life is a REAL selling point for me, and likely for many others.

I'm interested in how it sells, but if given the choice now, I'd choose the iPad, regardless of how much cheaper the WePad may be. Plus, I shudder to think of all the Air apps...

I'm actually waiting for a camera-enabled iPad. Imagine being able to Skype with friends/family while lying back on your couch. Or even docking it at the dining table, with Skype turned on, while eating dinner. (That way you'd still be able to have family dinners, even while separated by distance.)

It's unlikely that the WePad would have Skype installed, with that Android/Linux OS. Sigh.

Why is it unlikely? I regularly skype from my Linux desktop.

Seriously? Hrmm! I wonder if that's possible within Android within Linux ... (goes off to Skype website)

You can do all of these now (and have been able to for many years). If you don't have a laptop, netbooks are great for this and only cost $200-300. No need to buy a stand so you can use it without your hands either :).

This is the second product with a better specsheet, but we will have to see if they can come close to apples design and UX skill. on another note: was nobody reminded of these? http://www.1800petmeds.com/images/products/420/10860_420.jpg

I know we throw around the word innovative a lot these days but what exactly is innovative about this? A webcam? Memory card slot? There's no details on the software so that can't be it. Not that the iPad hardware itself is innovative either -- just evolutionary.

I'm annoyed that my comments on the TC story were apparently removed.

I love it! Jetzt geht's los!

Highly unlikely that a German company will be able to muster a global mass market audience. They just don't think that big.

Apple is not going to be too worried of losing their base over something that's likely of the same quality as a windows beige box

Don't tell VW that. Or Aldi. Or...

VW the car manufacturer? An industry where innovation consists of switching the color of paint to yellow?

And Aldi's? The poor man's Walmart?

Wow, what an idiotic statement that is.

Isn't Walmart already the poor man's Walmart?

I owned a VW Golf ... best car I ever had.

I don't care about what anybody says, german automobiles are the best (for a while I was thinking of switching to a Toyota, but after those incidents with the sudden acceleration, no thanks).

Now I'm stuck with a french piece of shit that nobody wants to buy :)

German cars [1] were lagging behind Asian cars in reliability a few years ago AFAIK. I heard they have caught up. Skodas should be nice, too. Skoda comes from the Czech Republic, but were bought by VW some time ago.

[1] Opel, I am looking at you!

Aldi has quite a success in the US now. Walmart tried to get into the German market, OTOH. They give up after wasting a lot of money. There was more competition then they could take.

Germany is only the largest exporter in the world in 2007: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_exp-economy-exports and the second largest in 2009: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

So it is not "highly unlikely" that a German company will muster a mass market audience.

I agree however Apple definitely wins on the quality of products and the seamlessness of the experience, but that doesn't mean no company can compete.

He's referring to the consumer tech market place. When's the last time a German company launched a piece of consumer hardware that had worldwide market share?

I'm using EyeTV with my Mac to view TV.

German company. Great products.

EyeTV does not have large market share, in the sense that it does not compete on the scales of the ipad (which is what we're discussing).

I'm not bad mouthing German companies or products. I drive a VW.

they sell in a lot of countries, incl. the US.

Not every one is as large as Siemens, Bosch, Blaupunkt, ...

There are Braun, Loewe, Navigon, Sennheiser, ...

Do cars count?

Gigaset (Siemens' phone company) and T-Mobile come to mind as large German global consumer technology brands.

T-Mobile is great example, thanks.

Germany has companies like Siemens. With a couple of hundred thousand employees all over the world. Hundred thousand in the US alone.

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