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Comment by seanmcdirmid | Hacker News Reader

One of these innovation centers popped up recently next to our office. These are basically re-purposed "ghost malls" for malls that couldn't make it in retail, of which there are many. So call it "fall out" from the real estate bubble more than anything, and who wants to be stuck in a window-less subterranean labyrinth? Not the best place to be innovative.

At least this is in Beijing Zhongguancun, which does have a startup scene...kind of. And such space might be appealing to lower cost startups who don't want to rent office space out in the suburbs.

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This seems to be a non-issue IMHO. If they try to attract foreigners ala Startup Chile, they could fill these things up in weeks. If 40% occupied innovation centers is the biggest thing wrong with China, they aren't in bad shape.

Btw ... Ontario, Canada tried to do innovation from the top-down via the Mars building. The amount of money they spent in real-estate could have been used to give every person with a Masters/PhD in a STEM discipline from an Ontario University a bag of cash. But the buildings look prettier I guess than seed capital.

Believe me, they have no interest in foreigners. All this is by Chinese for Chinese.

Can you elaborate? Is this some kind of xenophohia like we see in other parts of the world? Or is it they want to learn how to do everything in the entire vertical chain (with a focus towards moving up the value chain)? Or something else entirely?

I see Chinese tech companies open up R&D shops in North America, and I'm curious what they really want out of it.

The markets they are going after is domestic, the primary language even at my branch of an American company (Microsoft China) is Chinese. It is not a place where multiculturalism is common or especially appreciated. A few foreigners get hired here and there, but it's not very common at all.

If they really want foreign employees, they probably think setting up shop abroad is the only way to do it.

Because most garages that start ups In Silicon Valley were originally in were windowed?

Touche. Abandoned shopping malls might be a step up from garages.

Not really. The point of startup in a garage is that it's your garage. No commute to get there, and no extra rent beyond what you were already paying.

China lacks garages. I mean, they have underground tenant garages everywhere, but there is nothing like the western detached garage anywhere, even in the countryside. This might be the next best thing.

However, 798 was an old factory complex that was taken over by artists for awhile before that success caused gentrification that then kicked them out. That...would be cool, but the Chinese government doesn't think so innovatively (they would never think a bunch old work shops would make a better startup workspace than an abondoned shopping mall - sigh).

I'd guess they were mostly operated with the doors open, at least in the summer. From what I recall, most startups in the garage-stage also had no employees. I can see myself working without daylight, but I'd never consider subjecting employees to that (It's also illegal in my jurisdiction).

> I'd never consider subjecting employees to that (It's also illegal in my jurisdiction)

I'm curious, what jurisdiction is this? I've never heard of such a restriction (though I have to say I'm a fan).

Fire code. Offices must have Windows, or barring that something else very expensive. Also true for most houses.

China doesn't really have a fire code, or if they do, it is routinely ignored, so it wouldn't be an issue here (e.g. consider the ant tribe of people who live in apartment building basements). And obviously, underground malls are treated differently in general.

How about an arcology overhaul route?

Make more of the 'common' inner areas a combination of hydroponics (above) and greenway parks (beneath). Use skylights and/or artificial sun-lamps as necessary/effective.

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