Be honest, your wallet is $499 lighter | Hacker News Reader

Be honest, your wallet is $499 lighter

codesketch.com

31 pointstechsaucebaby36 comments

What a cool app. I bet the guy who made that is a really swell fellow. (just kidding)

Man, I need to block hacker news so I can finish the damn ipad version already.

Yep, that's why I am buying an Exo PC Slate! http://www.exopc.com/en/exopc-slate.php

It works on Windows 7 with 3 USB ports. It's the same price as the ipad, but it's more geared as an netbook killer than a bigger iPod touch. They waited untile the iPad launch to commercialize the device. I think they already are using the device in some coffee shops in Rimouski, Québec.

While the hardware is incredibly important, the software is what's going to shoot this form factor to the top. I'm sure there will be many imitators that get close to the form factor with lackluster software that brings the overall UX down.

On a hardware note, I bet Apple is extremely happy not to have to support x86 legacy cruft.

I wonder how long it will take before someone manages to slap linux on it.

X seems to be pretty dependent on its pointer though, there would be quite a bit of work in there to make a platform that you can develop applications for.

You say it runs Windows 7 like that's a good thing. (I'm no Windows fan, but if it ran a regular desktop Linux distro I would feel the same way)

The UI and methods of interaction are what make the iPad different from almost every other tablet released to date. Without an OS tailored for it, a tablet is just a watered down notebook.

I wonder why they decided to go with Windows 7 rather than Android.

I heard the device was in development for 10 years. It's probably a historical choice they didn't tought about afterwards.

Well, one of the things I don't like about the iPad is that you are limited to the iPad OS, and that it's not a replacement for netbooks (no usb or flash). It's the platform of Apple and nothing else. But, I do agree with you that it's really different from a desktop PC and the iPad is really nice for end users. Like they say, it's the best experience for the stuff the iPad is made for.

However, Windows has multitouch with the newer versions of .NET. You can also run Flash / Flex. I think a Windows alternative would fit enterprises that mostly run on Windows software for paticular uses (which is what I intend to build apps for). However, I got no idea if it work on the exo pc tough.

You say it runs Windows 7 like that's a good thing.

There's actually a lot of very good, very useful Windows software out there. Here's what I have on my tc1100 slate PC:

    - Skype
    - Chrome
    - Firefox
    - Kindle for PC
    - FBReader
    - VLC
    - Picasa
    - KeePass
    - Widcomm Bluetooth 
    - Dropbox
    - Google Earth
    - Pencil
    - Evernote
    - Squeak

Most of what I do, I do through Google Chrome and various web apps but I very much like the ability to install whatever Windows program I want.

I own a new Macbook and just sold a 24" iMac. Still have a PowerPC 15" Aluminum Powerbook. Mac vs. PC is what Noam Chomsky calls "irrational jingoism." It's a marketing manipulation ploy. If you are for Linux because of FOSS philosophy, then good for you. If you are part of marketdroid-created jingoism, then I think that's a waste of time.

Me, I just run useful software on good hardware.

Without an OS tailored for it, a tablet is just a watered down notebook.

Not true at all. Have you actually owned and really used a good slate PC? I can use this thing in situations I can't use a laptop or even a netbook. Just this afternoon I was talking with a coworker on Skype while lounging around and surfing on the couch and we were showing each other our projects with the webcam. The form factor is key, and Windows XP Tablet is brilliantly executed, even if it is designed for propeller-heads and not ordinary mortals. (Styluses are for propeller-heads like me.) It's not an OS tailored for a tablet so much as Windows XP with tablet support features bolted on. It still works well if you are savvy.

I can do everything that the iPad is supposed to be able to do now, with hardware and software from 3 or 4 years ago. Granted, the tc1100's industrial design is phenomenal, which is why this machine has basically attained cult status. But I can also see the cracks in the execution that would have alienated it from the general public. Also, the ecosystem has to be there for the platform to really work.

In the end, I'm bullish on the iPad, which I've preordered.

For me it's the same but the software I use is for Unix. By the way, most of the software you use is available on OS X and Linux as well. All of it that I can see, but I'm not familiar with Pencil, Widcomm BT, or FBReader.

I guess if the software you use works well with a touch screen then that's fine. I far prefer my iPhone to any Windows Mobile device I've owned. You can't just shoehorn a desktop UI into a touch-screen device without a keyboard or mouse without the experience being subpar.

I have not used a good tablet PC, maybe I should try one out but none have been that compelling to me. I'll probably get an iPad eventually, to develop for it if nothing else. It's too much like my iPhone and not enough like my notebook for me to jump at the 1st revision of a 1st gen product. In a year or two I'll get one when the kinks are worked out and the feature set has been fleshed out.

edit: While the exo pc and tc1100 look pretty nice I don't imagine many developers tailor anything for them. That will be the biggest strength of the iPad (at first anyway).

edit: While the exo pc and tc1100 look pretty nice I don't imagine many developers tailor anything for them. That will be the biggest strength of the iPad (at first anyway).

I think you hit it spot-on there! The way iPhone OS and its ecosystem is set up, developers must tailor their software to the device to succeed. This was the big weakness of the Tablet PC initiative: that such fine tuning was considered optional.

Windows 7 supports multitouch, so running it on an tablet computer is not outlandish as it seems.

Where's the software?

Good point, I didn't tough of that! Thanks. I emailed them 2 days ago regarding their UI library / SDK (they only name it)... I wonder when I'll get an answer.

That does look cool.

I gotta say, I'm mighty disappointed that the iPad is just an overgrown iPhone. If it had been a MacPad and ran OSX I would have been all over it. :-(

As far as iPad alternatives go, I feel that the Notion Ink Adam deserves more attention than it's getting. 3G and Wifi, camera, and innovative back side trackpad in addition to a touchscreen. And it runs Android. Nothing on a price yet, but in my opinion, it's definitely worth keeping an eye on. http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php

Can it run ColecoVision games?

I don't think so, but there's an NES emulator for Android. It probably wouldn't be able to take much advantage of the larger screen, since classic games would look pretty awful stretched out to full tablet resolution.

The iPad doesn't really feel like it's developed for me as a tech savvy person (no multitasking, no side-loading, etc.), but I think that's the point.

However, the developer side of me is pumped to be able to leverage the unique hardware and create an experience that would have been impossible otherwise.

Would a portable device geared towards the tech-savvy really move the dials for you? I'm, uh, pretty tech savvy, and the prospect of more connector ports and a more powerful text editor doesn't open my wallet. Etude does.

Etude does.

Really? Etude is a cool app, and is certainly nice looking, but it's nothing new; I remember doing the exact same thing (even "professionally engraved" notation, via lilypond) 6 years ago on my Linux box. The difference is that on your real computer, you can actually connect your MIDI keyboard, and you can see two entire pages of music at once. And you already have it, so it's free.

So while nice, I don't think the iPad or iPhone is the best device for this application. The iPad is certainly nice for reading HN while waiting for the train, I would imagine.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's only good for browsing the web. The ease of use of different devices brings about incredible behavioral changes that can't simply be disregarded.

I have the luxury of testing a lot of mobile devices lately. I have a macbook pro, iPhone, Kindle DX, Nook, Sony Reader, and ASUS EEE 1005H. I never use the netbook because my 13" MBP is almost just as small and a million times better. The readers are neat, but I don't bother unless I'm reading a novel. They are essentially like books and their value cannot really be maximized unless you're the type of person who reads at any available moment (and I don't live a lifestyle that provides me with such moments).

There is this huge middle ground where my MBP is a bit too clunky and my iPhone a bit too small. The iPad fills that gap perfectly. I'm the type of person though that prefers to read my email at work standing up and on my iPhone rather than on my desktop. And I suspect as more comfortable devices come to market (like the iPad), these sort of behavioral changes will become more apparent.

Interesting. I travel a lot, and try to avoid taking too much with me. The Kindle + netbook is a good combination for me. I also take my happy hacking keyboard. (As for laptops, I think they are a waste of money. A quad-core desktop + netbook is cheaper than a decent dual-core laptop. And if you lose the netbook, it's no big deal. $300 and you have a brand new one.)

The problem with the iPad and devices like it is that most of my activities in front of a computer involve typing; writing or programming. Just sitting and reading content is nice, but that's what the Kindle is for. And if I need to type, I need a real computer. So the iPad is the form factor that I would like to carry around, but it's worse than a Kindle for reading and worse than a netbook for computing.

I also have a portable music/movie player, and a phone. Way too many devices, and yet they are all good at one thing and all suck at everything else. Sigh.

Edit: after re-reading this comment, I've realized that I've failed at traveling light. netbook, kindle, keyboard, phone, dc-dc-converter, archos, headphones. I wish I could combine all these devices into one :(

I think the argument over losing them is moot. At my library, we're looking into loaning netbooks because we can buy 3 netbooks for the price of a single laptop (and then double the loan period to 8 hours and let them leave the building), but how many people actually lose them? I think it's a justification for being cheap. That is reasonable for libraries loaning out tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, but appalling to me for any developer. Or perhaps I'm just out of touch?

The iPad, on the other hand, is cheap. It's portable. It covers all the bases (music, email, internet, photos, and the app store). When I was talking with my mechanic, his exact words were, "so you wouldn't need a computer anymore." Exactly. Suddenly, anyone, including you, can experience the best of mobile technology (and arguably consumer technology) for only $499. And then splurge on a decent laptop like a Macbook for "real work". If you actually need any better, you should be relatively rich, so buy a MBP. Heck, keep using your Kindle too. a laptop, Kindle, and iPad is still pretty light.

I don't think anyone intends to lose or break their laptop, but it happens. I would rather be out $300 than $2000.

The iPad feels it was developed just for me as a tech savvy person.

I have online access to a large number of books (Safari Library subscription) and a large number of journal articles and conference proceedings (ACM Digital Library subscription). I currently only use these resources for short references. I rarely sit down and read something all the way through, because I just don't like reading sitting at my computer.

When my iPad arrives, there will shortly after be a big boost in my productivity, as I will be able to comfortably read the above materials, and much more, on my couch or in bed. (I said "comfortably", which rules out laptops and netbooks).

If all I ever use it for is accessing Safari Library, the ACM Digital Library, and technical documentation on the web, it will be well worth the cost.

But I expect it to end up useful for more as application developers come up to speed. I'm looking forward to seeing what the Omni Group comes up, with for instance. With Omni Outliner and Omni Focus on it, the iPad could become the organizational center of my life.

My prediction is that the app market for the iPad is going to be reminiscent of the app market for the iPhone--full of creative apps that do amazing things that most of us would not have come anywhere close to predicting.

Exactly. I got a kindle not for its intrinsic merits, but because of the behavior change. $200 is a very cheap way for me to read more books. Anecdotally, I'm reading about 3x as many books; I've cut down on my random surfing time and instead reach for more substantive stuff.

That's worth a lot more than $200 to me, and if the iPad encourages me to read even better stuff, all the better.

(I have no ebook reader besides my laptop and iPhone.)

It'll be interesting to see whether similar iPad users get a similar boost (Anecdotal-3x™), since [good] web/Twitter/Facebook/email are each a Home button and a tap away on it, unlike Kindle.

I sure hope so, as one of my main hopes for the iPad is that I'll read more "Real Books" once I have one, but my compulsion to check what's happened in the last 5 minutes makes me think twice.

Hey, if I get Anecdotal-2x™, I'll be pretty damn happy and more productive.

I don't think the iPad will increase reading anywhere near as much as the Kindle simply because of the screen. EInk is awesome. Even the iPhone hurts my eyes in dim light, imagine 4 times the brightness.

I don't really ever have trouble reading a (good) LCD, and specifically would prefer reading on an iPad rather than a Kindle because the iPad is backlit and I read a lot in the dark before bed. I know many disagree, though.

I never turn the iPhone's brightness above 60%; I usually turn it all the way down in the dark and would very much like it to be able to go even lower. What a funny change from a few years back when we were always excited about upcoming LCDs being brighter than their predecessors and spent much of the time with our screens at 100% and still a little too dim.

Even tech savvy people sometimes want to step away from the computer and just read a book or play a game without too much complexity or required hoop jumping to get there.

good point. but that is an argument for a tablet, not necessarily the IPad. I suspect the launch of the IPad will get a lot of manufactures to focus on tablets of various form factors and as soon as I can get one i can put Linux on, with plenty of ports, at an affordable price, I'll buy one.

(I'll never pay any money to Apple or develop on their ecosystem. They act too sucm bag-gy for my liking - just a personal preference)

I don't get it. Reading music is the easy part, and it's best learned with a real instrument.

You argue this based on what information? The lack of other means available until recently? And how do you explain how quickly people learn things when taught interactively, like the music games out now do?

I'll be honest, I'm not spending $499 or more on an iPad.

Your name says it all...

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