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Comment by Avshalom | Hacker News Reader

Ah yes, the old Dating-Site-That-Is-Actually-An-ISIS-Terror-Cell-Coordination-Site ploy...

Oh wait, that's not a real thing at all. Why should this be a treasure trove?

because groups talk differently amongst themselves than they do in a survey. i live in a muslim dominated neighbourhood. i had them for classmates so i heard them talk amongst themselves and they said some stuff that did shock me (not just related to jihad, but also things like: some girls talked about how they where not allowed to look western boys in the eye). but more importantly because we want to know this. how do they (the other) think. what is a 'moderate muslim'. its fascinating to get some insight on these things.

"what is a 'moderate muslim'."

WOW! How do cope with such a high level of paranoia?

I'd say it's less paranoia and more "all we get from the media is anti-Muslim propaganda and reports of horrible things extremist Muslims do, it'd be nice to have something to point to that's not about that."

Honestly I'd rather the mainstream media just starts doing consistent positive coverage on individuals in the Muslim community to counteract the negative news, but I'll take what I can get.

I've had discussions with several 'normal folk' Americans (note: I am American) that are totally brainwashed into believing being Muslim is synonymous with being pure evil, and I'm afraid of what that mindset leads to, especially on a large scale.

I've had discussions with several wealthy upper class Americans (who should know better) that are totally brainwashed into believing being poor white trash, pro gun, pro gay marriage or pro abortion is synonymous with being pure evil.

The ability to fail to understand the difference between a group and it's most visible members is one that is common across ethnic and economic subsets of the population.

You live with many Muslim neighbours and you look to leaks of dating sites for gaining insight into their lives?

Why don't you just plant microphones directly in their homes? You are their neighbour so you should be able to find a pretext to be invited for dinner if you just talk to them a bit.

> not just related to jihad

The prejudice is strong with this one.

edit: Changed "racism" to "prejudice"

is it a race now?

Words no longer actually have meaning, or did you not get the memo?

There was a meeting scheduled to go over it, but it was on Google Calendar...

And by "it" you mean the Islamic religion I assume?

I don't see what distinction you're trying to make. Is it somehow more acceptable to be prejudice against an entire religion than it is to be prejudice against an entire race? Is that really the discussion you want to have, that some prejudice is acceptable and other prejudice is not?

Well, yes. The nominal standard here is whether the prejudice is against something the individual has choice over. One does not choose one's race, whereas once does choose one's own religion, even if raised in an environment suffused with it.

Choice and agency is the standard by which most people draw the line between generic prejudice and hate. It's no coincidence that gay rights dramatically improved along with widespread acceptance that, regarding sexual orientation, "I was born this way".

It's still the result of stereotypes and over-generalization. Islam is a religion with over a billion followers: trying to make any sort of statement about all of its followers is a fool's errand. I'm reminded of what my religious studies professor said: "There is no such thing as Christianity: there are Christianities". The Christianity of Pope Francis is not the Christianity of the Westboro Baptist Church, and the same holds true for Muslims.

Just as much as white/black are races.

A less snarky answer is that just like Jews there is a separation of cultural Muslims and religious Muslims, the former representing a race.

Oh really? Expand on this?

It's an important disclaimer that race is ultimately a human construct so when if say that something is a race I mean that people either identify themselves or a class of people as belonging to that race.

Back to the point, certain religions are so ingrained culturally and politically that people start to identify themselves culturally and ethnically with the faith because of the people's shared ethical values, history and background. This would have also happened with Christianity if it weren't for the fact that it's the 'default' in the western world.

A person who grows up in the Muslim world, is taught Islamic history, is raised with Islamic values, and practices national and ethnic 'rituals'^1, but is nonreligious might choose to identify themselves as racially Muslim but not religiously.

Conversely a light skinned person in predominately Christian area who finds Islam later in life might say they are racially white, American, or identify with their ancestors ethnicity, but identify themselves as religiously Muslim.

^1 Despite the connotation this isn't necessarily religious. The 4th of July celebration in the US is a ritual.

I'm not sure what the criterion here is. Certain Muslim countries legally prohibit certain sects from identifying themselves as Muslims, and Israel prevents Messianic Jews from identifying as Jewish. Perhaps you mean culturally or civilizationally? This line of thinking can lead to dark places, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Sells#Christoslavism

You live in a Muslin neighbourhood yet to understand them you need to look at stolen private information? How about talking to them instead?

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