Voters may be asked to tax SF tech companies
sfexaminer.com
sfexaminer.com
Supervisor Peskin has built up a reputation for walking this line; for instance, he generally favors increasing affordable housing (BMR) requirements to very high levels. That appeals superficially to progressives, but also causes fewer units to be created overall, leading to ever-higher market rates and single-family-home values. It's really bad news for anyone who ever wants to rent in a market rate apartment.
This proposed policy follows a similar vein. It subsidizes everyone else - both asset-rich homeowners from earlier generations and those barely getting by - at the expense of San Francisco's newcomers, who have no reason to support him anyway. Coming from Peskin, this move doesn't surprise me at all.
Great to see renters (of all income levels) finally banding together in the most recent election: http://www.sfyimby.org/
Seriously, this is how they address issues of utmost importance? Never thought I'd say this, but I almost want technocratic politicians over these reactionaries st this point.
The larger issue, the elephant in the room is we need an integrated regional government with teeth and foresight. But all the pols in all these cities will not want to give up their power in exchange for a better planned and governed future.
I'm confused. You think the companies are valuable because they pay taxes, but shouldn't be taxed?
Truthfully, this is only a return to the previous state of affairs, a 1.5% payroll tax isn't that painful - the impact on Twitter would be less than 5 headcount.
The reason companies like Twitter originally sought a tax break is because of how stock options are taxed. If you work for twitter for several years and never cash in your stock options, they have to bank the potential payroll tax they would pay on the purchase value of these options. So many employees never cash in on options that this creates a kind of snowball that freezes a ton of capital. In effect, this means that current investors in a company like Twitter are banking money to pay the taxes of future potential employee-investors.
I agree this doesn't make economic sense, I don't think wholly opposing payroll tax is a reasonable reaction to it. I don't know what the solution is, but it's amusing to see this come full circle.
So, of course all companies should pay taxes their fair share of taxes. Just don't construct special schemes to tax a class of businesses.
Imagine Detroit saying, we're broke, let's tax car companies by the amount of potential pollutants their end products could produce. Hey, they'd have a windfall till Tennessee says, hey, GM, wanna come over here? We'll tax you as a normal state would (as an exaggerated example).
Therefore it's cosmic justice that they should be subject to Democratic policies.
Put your money where your mouth is!
But being free to fire someone because they prefer to date members of the same sex - or because they are black or a woman or not a Protestant Christian - does make things cheaper and simpler for business. Is that the world you would rather live in?
It's nice to think that there are specific reasons why people can't be fired, but as long as I can be fired at any time for no reason, then no list of specific reasons that cannot be used as cause for termination will ever have any relevance to me, no matter how long or thorough it may be.
The Dems are not a Labor party. Most unions cozy up to them just because it's better to woo Belphegor than Beelzebub.
When you own a business, and have two employees, and have to get rid of one, it should be easy as sitting down and saying you are no longer a good fit for the company...The employee takes the two weeks pay and that is the end of it. That is all it should ever be. No matter the reason. Non "at-will" employment states are ridiculous.
Oh I wish. The more realistic scenario is the employee gets fired and loses all benefits and pay right then and there. If they're minimum wage and/or have a family, they then get evicted, their car is repossessed, and their life is ruined.
I understand the issue from the side of the business. I also understand it from the side of the employee. If at-will employment strives to be at all fair, either severance needs to be mandatory or our welfare safety net needs to be increased. Years back I got fired "at-will", and the state just laughed when I asked about money to pay my rent. Luckily my car was paid off, because they weren't going to help with that, either.
The first time, I got a decent severance, probably because the company didn't want me to sue over unvested options. The second time, I got no severance at all, but six months of warning before the ax fell. The third time, 1.5 weeks notice and no severance. The fourth time, 3 days of notice and no severance. (That was right after getting a manager-requested performance bonus, too.) The fifth time, completely unnecessary security escort to the parking lot, and two weeks pay in lieu of notice. Each time, it was a scramble to find anything at anywhere near my old salary before the savings ran out. Twice, I had to take a crap job that I ended up hating because I'm afraid of being broke and homeless. Twice, I had to move to another city.
So when a business owner says "at will" is necessary... well screw you, buddy. Having the rug unexpectedly pulled out from under your whole life makes it really hard to not fall down. Your employees are not machines. They need to eat, and sleep, and some of them need food and beds for their spouses and kids, too.
I constantly hear that "at will" theoretically makes it easier to hire people, but in actual practice, the ease of hiring is probably constrained by benefits enrollment and mandatory paperwork rather than the fear of not being able to easily fire a bad employee. No one will hire you unless they can expect to keep you for at least a year, because of the up-front HR expenses for a new hire. Firing may be zero cost, but hiring isn't exactly gratis.
I understand the reasons why employers like it. But they aren't the only participants in the economy, and labor gets absolutely zero benefit from it. Eventually, laborers will realize that the only way to make "at will" work for them at all is to secretly shop for new jobs on a continuous basis, and then jump ship with no notice the instant a better offer comes in. Businesses are still eating up the last remnants of the "company loyalty" and "professional conduct" ethics, and when it is finally gone, everyone will be "F U, pay me" mercenaries, or Uber drivers. Businesses will find it just as difficult to plan major projects as their "at will" employees find it to plan major expenses, like weddings, houses, and kids. If a temporary contractor can't pick it up with no lead time and be immediately productive, it just won't get done. Good luck running an entire economy that way.
That's why I always dread the "where do you see yourself in five years?" question in interviews. My honest answer is that as an "at will" employee I will be blown hither and yon like a leaf in the wind, and I will probably have two or three more employers appended to my resume by then, but I instead glibly lie and say that it would be an achievement just to still be working for the same company under the same ownership.
I really, really want to hitch my horse up to the same wagon for the next 25 years, and maybe grow some roots that I won't have to cut off next time the job market goes sour. Both of my parents had just two different employers over their 40 years of working, and we lived in the same city, in the same school system, all the way until I graduated high school. But I'm not entirely certain that my own kids will be able to graduate with some of the same friends they made in elementary school--not just because I'm afraid we may have to move, but because their friends' parents are already being shuffled to different cities.
"At will" is most definitely not fair in the current environment.
Actually, payroll taxes usually do the opposite: "It only applies to the first $110K in earnings. That way, it makes sure to capture a significant portion of the earnings of all poor-to-middle-class people, and then cut off before capturing a significant portion of the earnings of any rich people."
http://gawker.com/5986230/the-unfairness-and-stupidity-of-th...
The default position of the city is to consistently raise taxes. Is it possible to utilize our current resources more effectively?
It also has a larger GDP than something like 36 individual US states (don't have same year numbers, but only 14 states -- and, obviously, one of those is California -- have 2015 GDP [0] higher than SF's 2014 GDP [1]) -- and that's not just because its bigger in population than some states, since only four states (Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska, and North Dakota) have smaller population than SF.
> Is it possible to utilize our current resources more effectively?
Seems to me SF is doing something right.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP
I'd wager a good chunk of it goes to ensuring the money is being spent correctly.
When I was an undergrad my boss was the grant writer. Half the money (and a lot of time) went into compliance and accounting.
Another example is the joke about construction projects; 1 guy digs the hole, another guy supervises the guy digging the hole, a union rep watches over the guy digging the whole, government rep makes sure the guy digging the whole is to spec, environmental guy makes sure the guy digging the whole isn't causing environmental damage. Individually, all these people are necessary, but as you add more requirements and more compliance it takes up a lot of money.
And that's what happens when people say I don't know where the tax money goes. Another committee gets formed, more forms to fill in are created.
Not as a share of GDP, compared to other states. Its roughly comparable to other big states (though higher than Texas), and lower than lots of states run by what purport to be small-government conservatives.
California's budget is big in absolute terms, sure, but so is its nearly $2.5 trillion GDP.
SF's budget share of SF's GDP + California's budget share of California's GDP is less than many states budget share of GDP alone (without considering local budget shares.)
[edit] just with a quick overview of parking alone, they're looking at a 3-5% drop in revenue with total adoption - I'll look into it more but if traffic/vehicle violations make up the normal percentage of 'licenses, permits, fines and fees' it'll be up to 10%.
How do you decide if a company is a tech company? They use computers, they must be a tech company..
The proposal as it stands seems to imply that tech alone is responsible for widening income inequality, particularly in San Francisco. The more accurate perspective is that tech these days has allowed small numbers of extremely skilled people to perform work that half a dozen moderately skilled workers could not accomplish as well on their own. As a result, it makes a lot more sense to pay one person $200,000+ a year than six people at $100,000. The biggest income gains are near or at the top, and the taxes should follow.
Taxing an engineer making $85k just because they work in tech only makes an already very expensive city less worth living in.
This is hardly armageddon.
When the employer is the one actually transferring the money to the government, market economics make it sure that they pass the cost on to the employee.
Higher payroll taxes, less disposable income from tech employees, less money put into the market by the private sector in favor of taxes put in by the government. It is highly understood about the effect of economic multipliers between private industry spending and government. When will progressives ever learn?
On that note, businesses: There are many states who would give many tax incentives for moving your company to the city/state. Texas, Washington...even NY...
SF and it's voters apparently do not want you...time to go somewhere that does.
The ideal solution was probably to invest heavily in housing 5 years ago. But since it's too late for that, at this point it's just damage control. Even if SF does finally get moving on building more housing, it's so far past having enough of it in the reasonably near future that a small incentive for jobs to go elsewhere probably would help things in the next ~5 years. As far as progressive redistribution schemes go, this one actually makes more sense to me than most (as much as I hate to agree with Peskin et al).
There are many states, that pay a lot less taxes (some only Sales and Property tax) and the SF Tech community always ignores because SF is so cool (there's no tech investors).
You guys are staying, tax or no tax, stop whining.
Everyone who thinks this way, please, yes, go!
http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Companies-avoid-34M-i...
Don't all companies nowadays involve some sort of "technology"?
"The measure identifies tech companies by the type of tax code they use under the Internal Revenue Service’s North American Industry Classification System. Companies classify themselves. They may face penalties if a government audit finds they are misidentifying themselves."
[0] http://readwrite.com/2013/09/27/massachusetts-tech-tax-repea...
Not if you're trying to take advantage of resentment by a certain portion of the population towards industry XYZ.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11996105 and marked it off-topic.