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Comment by no_flags | Hacker News Reader

What do you mean by "Apple's approach"? I've never been forced to upgrade the OS on my iPhone or Macbook pro.

I was forced to "upgrade" my iPad 2 to iOS 9.2, because I forgot my pin to unlock it. There is no way to factory reset it without updating the OS. I mean, I didn't have to update it, but then I wouldn't be able to use it. My iPad was held hostage, although I guess it was my fault for forgetting my pin, right?

Here's a list of regressions in iOS 9: - My sideloaded copy of Flux no longer works - The built-in feature, to change the display temperature, is not available on my iPad 2, and the Flux app no longer works. - Can no longer change audio output in Music app, to select between different bluetooth devices - Battery life is worse - BitTorrent Sync can no longer access my photos or videos - For each bug they fixed, new bugs were introduced. In OneNote with text selection, and in Safari.

Why does nobody talk about all of the regressions in each OS update?

And of course, I had to update iTunes. And then of course I could no longer use it for development without updating my MacBook and XCode!

I use my iPad to develop medical software with an enterprise license on a closed environment, and do not need or /want/ the latest version of XCode.

I only used this device because it was provided by work, but I did start to grow fond of it and began using it more and more as a laptop replacement. I knew better than to buy an iOS device, since I've been burned by Apple so many times. I'd be happy to give you a long list of the ways Apple has been just as bad as Microsoft, except, Apple has a nice velvet glove when they are evil, whereas Microsoft is clay footed giant.

I suppose they mean taking Apple's "We know what is good for you better than you do" approach. While Apple currently does not force OS upgrades, they do make a lot of decisions for their users without giving their users an opt-out or a way to roll back. This idea top-down, walled garden is pretty central to contemporary Apple.

Like what? Give examples.

Apple makes design choices that are very opinionated on how you should use software and internals are hard to see, but they don't make decisions for you.

Example: Apple held my iPad 2 hostage until I stopped using iOS 8. I forgot my unlock pin (because I lent my iPad to someone else) and there is no way to factory reset it without also updating the OS.

So now Flux no longer works, and there is no way to adjust the gamma on this device, which means I no longer like reading on it before bed. And there are plenty of other regressions in iOS 9 as well. And they forced me to update my desktop just to interact with it.

SO, Apple very much forced me to update, if I wanted to keep using my device. There is no reason that updating iOS should be required to factory reset it.

iOS 9.3 has Night Shift, which allows you to adjust display color temperature

Not on the iPad 2.

Isn't that making a decision for you? "users will only ever need to install software from our central app store" is deciding for the user that they don't need to be able to run whatever software they want on their device. It's fine if, as a user, you decide you don't need that capability, but you are still having that decided for you.

Disclaimer: I don't know the current status of 3rd party app on iOS but my point still stands.

They decided for me that my updated iphone 4s should never be able to be restored to factory condition and I would be forced to suffer terrible performance and battery life.

They decided for me that all my apps should auto-update. This incentivizes application developers putting their users on a constant upgrade treadmill (similar to apple). I guess there is so much amazing "Innovation" happening in every update that they decided that users absolutely must want every single update. This has caused developers to never consider a software feature-set as released or finished and free of bugs. They have taken this horrible mindset that only existed on the web and brought it to native apps.

Then there is the heavy handed approach of forcing you to update your entire OS just to run a developer IDE. Something previously _unheard_ of and frankly embarrassing from an engineering point of view.

Well folks, that's all the time we have for this segment today, tune in tomorrow for more.. :)

One obvious example is the fact that Apple does not allow you to install anything but the latest OS (and possibly one minor revision back) on an iOS device. OS upgrade kills your battery life or makes a critical third-party app stop working? Too bad, so sad, sucks to be you, there's no way to go back.

They don't force you to upgrade, but they artificially block the ability to go back.

They decided that ios9 on 5S should stutter while scrolling throughout the OS. A smooth working device experience on 8 was broken by an update and 10 minutes later with no option to revert anymore.

Interesting it coincided with release of SE couple months later...

All vendors suck, they just all have their own incentive.

You are not "forced" to upgrade the OS on an iphone, you will just have a pop up window every day asking you if you want to upgrade now or tonight. You have a choice!

And for each, it respects your wishes. That it's annoying is besides the point, also you're not getting telemetry forcibly installed, either.

It's only a dot release that contains security updates.

It certainly contains security updates, but also the opportunity to nag me a little more with apple music, icloud, apple pay, etc... But it's all for my own good!

Forced, no. Incessantly bothered, yes. iOS in specific starts popping up modal dialogs once it sees a new update.

Microsoft and Apple try to protect users from themselves. Users get angry. Users get hacked. Users get angry again.

If only we could divorce the security updates from the "new shiny" stuff.

There was a time when I'd look forward to OS upgrades with excitement to see what improvements there are - now I dread them because there's a real chance I'll lose functionality and be forced into some computer illiterate focus group's views on how I need to use my machine...

Yeah, it's pretty annoying on iOS. Every day...

I had a problem with this when the recent iOS 9.2 update was bricking iPad Pros. My iPad had downloaded the update but (having seen early reports of problems) I hadn't let it install.

So naturally, it started incessantly popping up reminders asking to install it, and if you hit "Later" it tells you to enter your passcode and automatically installs it later. There's a small bit of text below the PIN pad that you have to tap to skip it, and it'll come back and ask you again over and over. It is definitely Windows10-esque.

It keeps attempting to install despite the fact that Apple had pulled the release when they confirmed the bricking issue. As far as I can tell there is no way to stop it.

You can stop a previously downloaded update from actually being installed by deleting the downloaded data in the settings, but that's definitely not easily discoverable behavior.

Hm, I'd looked through Settings for a way to cancel but couldn't find it. Now that you mention deleting the data, I'm guessing this is under General > Storage & iCloud Usage > Manage Storage rather than somewhere related to updates?

That's true, but still less annoying than when I walked up to my PC to find a brand new OS I didn't ask for. I really wish there was a viable alternative to windows for gaming because I don't want to reward unethical behavior.

Consoles. They still automatically update, but they don’t break any of your other applications when they do.

Every one of the major console vendors is known for unethical behavior.

Microsoft goes without saying given the topic, Sony removes functionality post-sale and bullies people who talk about their security holes, Nintendo violates fair use on Youtube.

The paternalism i.e. forcing the user to do things the right way.

I see. I think I would be just as infuriated with Apple if they upgraded my OS behind my back. Walling off the app store doesn't imply they can install software without my consent.

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