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Comment by gonzo41 | Hacker News Reader

So today Britain cripples it own economy for nothing. But hey, no more Cameron!. I call it evens.

It's highly unlikely that Jeremy Corbyn would remain as the leader of the Labour either since there seems to be an outrage amongst Labour MP's due to the overwhelming number of their core constituencies voting to leave. The low turnout in Scotland and the lack of major involvement from the SNP during the final weeks almost seems like both the SNP and the Labour at least partially just wanted to sit and watch the world burn. It seemed that both of them looked at a possible BrExit as a way to get what their want - a Labour Government and a push for another Scottish independence referendum. To me this is really mind boggling I don't even want to start to estimate how much people including myself (a non-EU/EEA resident of London) would stand to lose over the coming months. People underestimated just how effective the propaganda and the cheap shots that the pro-BrExit camp spread over the past few weeks were, the EU and every sane political party in the UK should've been up in arms against it and sadly they weren't. This is just the first crack in the iceberg the full shockwave hasn't hit yet this will fracture the British economy and society for years to come and will have global ramifications. And while I don't really enjoy of taking a personal jab at you this attitude of hey at least we got rid of Cameron like there was or is an actual sane alternative is exactly how we got here. Too many people on the left used this referendum not to cast their actual wishes but to settle political scores hoping if they'll set the field ablaze a better and leftier government would eventually come out standing, it won't, and even if by some miracle it eventually will you would be paying the price for the next 30 years. The UK has forgotten how things were when it was the "sick man of europe" it sure is on it's way for a harsh reminder now.

>> "It's highly unlikely that Jeremy Corbyn would remain as the leader of the Labour either since there seems to be an outrage amongst Labour MP's due to the overwhelming number of their core constituencies voting to leave."

I was pretty happy with Corbyn so far but his complete lack of doing anything throughout this campaign is embarrassing. I'm guessing he didn't want to lose working-class votes but that makes him as bad as Boris Johnson. Deciding the fate of the country base don what's best for his political career.

> Deciding the fate of the country base don what's best for his political career.

It's rare that it is so out in the open but the vast majority of decisions are made like this.

He didn't campaign strongly because he's been consistently opposed to European integration for most of his parliamentary career. He believes it has a hugely negative effect on job prospects and wages for the poorest in society.

The only reason he even vaguely put his support behind remain was so that he wouldn't face a rebellion among his MPs. I'm pretty certain if he was still a backbencher he would have supported leaving.

He was out campaigning for a Remain vote but this was largely ignored by the media.

Any interviews with him I saw he didn't really take a strong position. He was remain but he didn't seem to care very much.

I'm really not that invested in this. I just think it's amazing that Cameron would let it happen. What a massive mistake. And what a way to to end your career and cement in your legacy as the person who to get short term gain (ukip support) at an election with the cost of destroyed an economy.

I'm very my pro remain. People voting to leave is mostly about not understanding what your losing. Strong tightly integrated economies don't start wars with each other.

I don't understand why people blame this on Cameron, no one else would be in a position not go a ahead with this, this is a divisive matter but it's clear that the people wanted a vote on the subject.

And let's be fair English left was pretty much demolished in the last elections the Labour lost just as many votes to UKIP as the Tories did as the British blue collar workers used to be their base and many of those are now UKIP voters.

The Labour also lost Scotland to the SNP and the Greens/LD pretty much got rolled over. The Labour had pretty much zero chance of winning the elections and they knew they had no way of forming a government with the projections for the LD because they could not form a coalition.

If the Labour spent just a little less time attacking the Conservatives and more time reconnecting with the blue collar workers they lost to UKIP and try to maybe not hand over 50 seats to the SNP we wouldn't be in this position.

Heck if the Labour would've done it's job during this referendum we might not have been in this position the so called "Pro-EU" party was silent, the SNP was silent, and the results are well what you would expect.

Actually, the Labour vote went up under Milliband. It was a quirk of the voting system that caused Labour to lose seats.

The government has a responsibility to govern. Cameron shirked his. He didn't have to offer a referendum; he did it not out of some commitment to democracy but as a ploy to win the election.

There has been so much scaremongering in the UK press that the markets are now reacting accordingly.

Ultimately trade deals are important not just to the UK but to the countries it trades with. People in power will make deals happen because they have to.

There's going to be some short term pain - but ultimately everything will balance out.

> Ultimately trade deals are important not just to the UK but to the countries it trades with. People in power will make deals happen because they have to.

It's wishful thinking that the deals will be as favourable to the UK, with its now much smaller leverage.

I never said anything about the deals with the EU being as favourable.

If the so-called scaremongering proves to be true (foreign investment shifting away from UK, etc.), I'm afraid, people like you will call it a conspiracy and a global plot facilitated by a vengeful EU.

Will I call it a conspiracy? That's very insightful of you, thanks for your fortune telling.

There's going to be pain, but I have confidence that we'll get deals in place that on average over the next five to ten years will see things balance out.

Your comment raised a red flag for me, because "scaremongering in the UK press" implies some kind of concerted effort, a conspiracy, to subvert the truth. That is why I, probably unfairly, placed you in a certain camp.

Five to ten years is a very long time to bet on. I do not share your confidence. And it looks like you will have less than two years time to settle things. BTW, is that five to ten years with or without Scottish oil?

Just remember: if you're wrong, the people who voted for leave and those who advocated it are to blame, no one else. Not the EU, not "the experts", not the "scaremongerers".

The Scottish oil industry is already on its arse so I don't see that coming in to play? From Wikipedia: The North Sea oil and gas industry contributed £35 billion to the UK economy (a little under 1% of GDP) in 2014 and is expected to decline in the coming years.

I have friends that used to work for BP and Co in Aberdeen and their take on it is that the good old days of oil production in Scotland are well and truly dead.

Dead dinosaurs to one side - whatever the actual truth, the media here in the UK (including the BBC in my opinion) did a terrible job of providing fact based, balanced views on the situation. Scaremongering might be a bit harsh - but the UK public are currently running scared and nothing good will come of that short or long term.

So if you were heading an American business and looking to open an office in Europe right now would London still be on the list?

Right now, today? Nope. But in time as the crazy starts to subside and normality returns and everyone stops screaming the sky is falling? Possibly.

Probably end up with Boris.

Suddenly Trump doesn't seem so bad.

The Borris / Farage coalition feels like some ridiculous parody joke from "Day Today" / "On the Hour".

Despite the fact I don't agree with his position on this I'd rather have Gove than Boris.

The economy is not everything. I know most people including leaders these days think all political decisions should be made keeping the economy in mind, and that's the most important thing. But I don't think this to be the case. Sovereignty and the right for people to make the rules that govern them are just as important if not more important than the economy.

Giving people freedom of self determination was in. At least for oppressed people.

And it seems like UK people exercised that freedom.

Not having an income isn't very freeing.

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