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Comment by shawndumas | Hacker News Reader

Having lived in Long Island, NY and Boca Raton, FL I gotta say... I don't think I could leave the Bay Area.

The weather, the geological features, the schools, the meetups, the job opportunities... all factors.

But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived. My son is a programmer and nobody had a clue what he was talking about--which is fine--but they also couldn't care less to even try to understand.

And also, there is a lot of prejudice that I am glad my kids will not grow up in the milieu of.

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>But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived.

This is the way I feel in Boston. The cost of living (mainly housing prices) gets more ridiculous every year, but the intellectual and cultural environment make me want to stay. Most of my friends back home (deep South) are easily able to afford to buy decent homes, while I'm stuck renting a tiny apt. Still, this feels like a worthwhile material sacrifice given the culture of this city. Then again, if I had kids, I might feel differently ...

Agreed - I like where I am, but I'm paying for it.

Then again, in another year or so I should be able to buy a place near a T stop.

I have a child on the way, live in Frankfurt Germany and feel exactly this lack of cultural environment, as most topics in intellectual circles here can be either categorized into "how to make more money/keep up with the joneses?" or "how to be really politically and environmentally friendly while having a good quality of life?"

I'm really unsure if this environment is so great for children as i'd rather be able to get them in an environment where big ideas are discussed. I've been doing my best for the past few years by organizing meetups/events or supporting others who do likewise, but at this point I question if that is enough compared to just moving to a place where these things are just the norm.

Boston is an amazing city in terms of intellectual capital, no doubt due to its rich history and many universities in the area. The brutal winter and steep cost of living are what make it difficult for me to see myself living there long term; unlike NYC or SF where tech salaries tend to be at least somewhat adjusted for the cost of living, I noticed Boston tech salaries were only marginally higher than Atlanta's, while Boston has the third highest CoL after SF and NYC.

Long Island and Boca Raton aren't exactly stiff competition in the "life of the mind" department. Also I disagree, IT is huge out there but other disciplines get short shrift.

LOL for sure.

And I agree about other industries but I happen to be in tech.

IT != software development

> But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived.

That seems like it used to be true more than it is now. I live in Austin, and you can't go to a downtown coffee shop without hearing a spirited discussion about programming languages, frameworks or even conversion rates (I heard that last one standing in line at a taco place the other day.)

It's partially, I think, because programming and computers are more ingrained in the culture at large, and mostly because SF got too expensive and so places like Austin, Seattle, and Portland have a significant number of tech startups now.

The conversations are on a different level though. In a secondary tech market you'll hear CoffeeScript vs. JavaScript, Laravel vs Rails or whatever. In the Bay Area, and also in Cambridge, the discussion might be about compiler architecture or reverse engineering.

That's some serious next level snobbery. Let me guess where you live.

In neither of those places. It's something I've observed living and working in both, however, and it's one of the main things I miss.

I would place those three or four conversations on the same level, to be frank. Also, living somewhere that isn't a tech capital, I'm actually annoyed to hear programming language discussion on the bus in the city, but maybe that's because I'm trying to get home from my job, not stay at my desk.

You're absolutely right. A better example of the former would be somebody building a basic CRUD app but describing it in brutal detail, throwing around as many words that buzz to the speaker as possible (REST, API, Bootstrap, etc.). Of course there's nothing wrong with that but it's boring as hell to overhear. A better description would be that in primary tech markets, the conversations tend to go much deeper and into areas that others would consider esoteric.

Jobs and day trips yes. Schools, no. Public schools are among the worst funded and least achieving. Good schools, go to Mass (with also good day trips, but harsh winters).

South FL has some truly awful schools; that was my comparison.

I just moved back here. I can confirm. Now looking for an exit strategy.

Looking to get out as well, Broward/Miami area is overcrowded and pricey, not to mention poorly educated. Lucky enough to work for a company that will allow me to go remote - can anyone recommend a place on the east coast? (preferably warm climate)

Blacksburg Virginia?

I loved Blacksburg. But due to my rebellious, student nature I told the Montgomery county sheriff I'd never come back to that place. I'd hate to have to break a promise.

Lots of my friends are moving to the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill in North Carolina. They seem to like it a lot. I visit the area about 3-4 times a year and love it.

Isn't the CoL already rocketing up in that area of NC?

I'm sure it's gone up, but I think it's still pretty decent. Drinks/food are pretty reasonable. You don't need to live downtown since it's pretty car centric out there. Chapel Hill has that upbeat college feel I love.

Northern VA, DC area. Some of the best schools in the country.

Go just a bit north. The line you must cross is between Pompano Beach and Deerfield Beach. Stay south of Cocoa Beach.

Ideally you'd be near Melbourne, preferably closer to the beach. Suitable towns: Melbourne Beach, Indialantic, Satellite Beach

You can do magnet programs there though. I went to school in Tampa. In general the public schools were awesome, but the magnet programs were absolutely incredible.

But South FL also has some truly great schools. I graduated High School from one of them. Many of my classmates ended up in ivy league schools. Everywhere, in my experience, has some good and bad schools.

This is mid-Fla, but when we moved from a good school system in a Dallas suburb to Brevard County, my daughter went from top 20% of her class to top 5%. This was unplanned but it set the table for her to have a full ride undergrad scholarship leading to a graduate program with also an assistantship.

After leaving school ( she stopped at a Master's ) she left anything related to academia behind but she's still roughly able to exploit the degree as a credential .

But South Fl is a completely different thing. I once declined a job offer there simply because more than half of the rental property on offer appeared to be phone-drop scams.

What geological features of the Bay Area do you regard as a plus point?

NB Not being snarky - I live in Edinburgh which is overflowing with geological features [hence arguably being the birthplace of geology as a science] and I love that factor but the main geological feature of the Bay Area would appear to be a major disadvantage rather than a feature?

I assume you're thinking about the earthquake risk. We haven't had a major quake here in a generation, and people have short memories. The San Andreas fault exists day-to-day as a pretty chain of lakes.

I'd also count being in a place where the mountains meet the ocean as a plus, as well as the golden gate (the waterway, not the bridge, though the bridge ain't half bad, either). And a few hours away you've got Big Sur and Yosemite.

You should move to Portland. We have all of that and more. No wait, the Californians are already ruining Portland. Please, do not move here.

You can keep Portland: no fourteeners and too much bloody rain. I'll take my SoCal where I can climb 365 days of the year.

I guess parent meant geographical. Ocean, bay, mountains, forests, near-deserts, all in close proximity.

Seattle has much the same, with the plus of waterskiing in the middle of the city on Lake Washington. Of course, the boom in prices is affecting Seattle, too.

Yeah, I lived over half my life up there. West coast geography is just what I consider "normal". I don't think I could live in other regions of the country as happily.

I didn't find housing costs to be that far out of whack with the increased salary when I moved to the Bay Area, though.

And I found the soul crushingly bad traffic at the time to be worse in Seattle than in the Bay. My #1 reason was the weather, though. I just couldn't take the lack of sunshine. My mood changed so much when I moved down here. I'm sure it doesn't bother some people, and more power to them. I really miss the northwest when I visit. It reminds me of what I've missed out on, things have changed so much. Then again, I would have missed out on things that happened down here. And I've missed out on everything that happened in Omaha and Denver and...

I like the rain in Seattle. It makes things peaceful, and the wet air smells good. (I grew up in Arizona, where 367 days of clear blue sky gets a bit boring <g>.)

After about 10 years here in CA, I started liking the rain too. Now I love it when it rains. I just hated the way unpredictable weather (==rain) meant you could never plan an outdoor activity in the PNW without the decent possibility of it getting rained on. It limited my enjoyment of the "great outdoors". But in a larger sense, my (mood-related) gripe was with the grey, not the rain itself.

I do miss the Arizona sunsets, though. And the electric storms in Kansas - what a show!

bingo

> What geological features of the Bay Area do you regard as a plus point?

I believe they may be talking about the Sierra Nevada range, with mountaineering matched only by places in the Andes, Himalayas or Alps. Yosemite is the climbing capital of the world and the birthplace of modern rock climbing. Sure, it's not right in the Bay area, but you can easily drive to a trail head within a half day or less.

Little known secret: the East side of the Sierras is where all the best action is at and the real estate is cheaper (although still overpriced). The downside is the tech jobs are few and far between and if you like urban environments, there aren't really any.

Half a days drive is a lot. In Edinburgh there are decent outdoor sports half an hour away.

Which is exactly why I said "or less". Depending where you live in California, Bouldering or sport climbing could be 20 minutes away,plus it's available year round. You can't beat that.

Perhaps it's a character defect, but I consider "the life of the mind" to be more about books than something involving other people directly, face to face.

The philosopher kings of SiVa are as much the Medici as they are intellectuals.

"All mankind's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room." - Blaise Pascal.

There's value in face-to-face interactions and conversations like meetups and hacker spaces or math circles for kids.

Absolutely, but it all really comes down to homework.

Guidance can help, tools can help, but it's not like those will replace just doing the work.

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