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Comment by hit8run | Hacker News Reader

How about: RTFM https://facebook.github.io/react/docs/getting-started.html

I don't get the react hype anyways. Writing inline HTML in JavaScript seems so weird to me (JSX).

The argument (among others) is that if you're going to be using if/else, for loops, and all that in a templating language you might as well use a full-featured language like JavaScript... (youtube timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7cQ3mrcKaY&t=4m13s)

or, you know, just write the app in pure javascript and still reap the benefits of [2-3x faster than React] virtual dom. though i'm a bit biased [1] ;)

[1] https://github.com/leeoniya/domvm

[2] http://mithril.js.org/

Meh since when is computational performance really a bottleneck? Do you find your site is loading seconds too slowly because JS is executing? I sure don't.

On today's machines the much larger bottleneck is how fast and easily you can iterate on product at scale which is a problem that React is a fantastic solution for.

Actually I do find javascript making many sites that are ultimately just displaying text, so slow as to be unusable.

How do you know it's the JS executing and not network time or the result of a poor infra decision?

Because it works great with JS turned off, and you can measure what is using your CPU an d what it is doing and how much time it is taking (also you can measure the network).

> Meh since when is computational performance really a bottleneck?

Ever used a phone that wasn't < 6 months old to browse the modern web?

> at scale

React is a front-end framework. The only "scale" that exists in its world is the fat DOM you generate and how fast it can mutate it. From that perspective, it sucks at scale (take a look at Preact and Inferno). Your iteration speed depends on good app architecture, not a specific framework. React Native does sound like a good perk, but likely isnt useful enough to make anything you cannot do anyway in HTML5.

Scale in terms of number of engineers and app size, not users

> number of engineers

can't this be said about any popular framework? "it scales because everyone knows it"

> app size

what specifically makes React scale better with app size than any other properly componentized architecture?

It doesn't scale because everyone knows it. It scales because React by nature isolates business logic into components so that for the most part 100 engineers can simultaneously work on the same product and be confident they aren't breaking stuff. (Or realize they are through merge conflicts)

> "properly componentized"

With React, 100 engineers don't have to know how to "properly componentize" things because it's already baked into the framework. You can't really write React code without proper componentization.

> React by nature isolates business logic into components

The essence is simply this:

    function MyView(model) {
      return template;
    }

...which can work with any view layer and the same 100 engineers. Especially if the model is an API with business logic around some immutable stream/state. The concept is simple enough to be described in one sentance :)

> don't have to know how to "properly componentize" things

I think you're overstating how difficult this problem is or forgetting that React's API must still be learned from documentation and examples.

What about state within a component? How do you encapsulate that state so that other components can't muck with it? What about passing data to that component? What about type checking that data passed in in debug mode? What about a formal API for components to talk to one another? What about knowing the explicit amount of the view tree that needs to be re-rendered based on what data changed?

React has answers to all these questions and so much more. Answers that very smart people have spent years coming up with.

Sure you could reinvent the wheel and build all that into your custom component framework, but then you may as well just use React.

I will address these with respect to domvm [1]

> What about state within a component? How do you encapsulate that state so that other components can't muck with it?

Solved.

> What about passing data to that component?

Solved.

> What about type checking that data passed in in debug mode?

Could be solved if i rewrote in TypeScript. But this has never been a problematic issue in 10k+ LOC apps.

> What about a formal API for components to talk to one another?

Yep.

> What about knowing the explicit amount of the view tree that needs to be re-rendered based on what data changed?

Obviously, that's what virtual dom is.

In addition to all of this and much more, materialized views are independently refreshable, can be composed between disjoint components. There are async lifecycle hooks, a router, mutation observers, ajax sugar.

All of it is 17k min, requires no special tooling or IDE to write, is isomorphic and is 2-3x faster than React.

I have no doubt that React brings a lot to the table, but I hesitate to treat it as the final word in frontend frameworks for all the above reasons.

[1] https://github.com/leeoniya/domvm

On mobile, it matters a lot, especially older/low-end Android phones.

JSX is entirely optional and it is easy to use React without it. (e.g., http://ludovf.net/reactbook/blog/reactjs-without-jsx-part2.h...)

(I hope the comment doesn't indicate that you think the interesting thing about React is JSX.)

Everyone has different mechanisms for learning. As someone who learns from manuals, tutorials, and videos simultaneously, a new technology presented as a wall of text can seem impenetrable until I've watched another human make something happen.

Then, I can loop back to that text armed with a little context. Videos are often examples of how to develop with the technology outside of a bubble. (Using React? Consider setting up webpack!) That seems to be missing from manuals sometimes.

Separating html out into a separate file/template always seemed weird to me. In every JS Framework HTML and Javascript are tightly coupled. JSX is also javascript, not HTML.

Yeah, the jsx bit is weird to start with, the best bit is changing data diffs the DOM and updates it for you.

However, unless building a madly complex UI I've decided it's best avoided; mostly because now that I can build super complex UIs I probably will rather than simplify things that can work in a progressively enhanced way.

haha that's the 5th link in the blog post

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