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Comment by camperman | Hacker News Reader

Hang on, we're not just talking about violations of internal company policies that led to a dismissal here. We're talking about crimes. I quote: "sexual harassment, rape, stalking, personal threats, and more." Appelbaum is entitled to defend himself and face his accusers in court if they believe they have something against him.

As to his guilt, I don't know. Half of me thinks he could well be a slimeball that's guilty as charged. If that's the case, then he needs to go to jail. But the other half of me remembers that there's 'women in tech' organisations that have been accused of framing technology leaders for sexual assault just to marginalize them. That's why I want to see some due process and some real evidence.

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> there's 'women in tech' organisations that have been accused of framing technology leaders for sexual assault just to marginalize them

Just what kind of absurd anti-feminist conspiracy theories have you been reading? Are you honestly suggesting that this many of Applebaums colleagues are evil conspirators hell-bent on destroying an innocent man's life? I think you could do with some Occam's Razor and a moment to think about your attitude towards sexual assault and power.

> Just what kind of absurd anti-feminist conspiracy theories have you been reading?

Eric Raymond's post on the subject here - http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907 - clearly accuses the Ada Initiative of framing technology leaders for sexual assault. I chose to Listen and Believe him. What's the problem?

> Are you honestly suggesting that this many of Applebaums colleagues are evil conspirators hell-bent on destroying an innocent man's life?

No, I think there something to these allegations. But the problem is the environment has been salted and soured so much recently that when a high profile person accuses someone of a sexual assault that took place years ago, my automatic reaction is that they're lying. That's why I want to see due process including cross-examination and lengthy jail terms if he's guilty.

> I think you could do with some Occam's Razor

Ok, how about this then? Three separate women accuse a media personality of sexual assault. He is tried. On the stand it turns out each one of the women was lying - he had proof that it was consensual. I was 100% convinced before the trial he would be convicted. I mean come on: three separate witnesses? Each with a similar story? Occam's Razor right? Nope.

> a moment to think about your attitude towards sexual assault and power.

I think it's extremely healthy: someone accused of any crime is presumed innocent until proven guilty as part of a due process.

In some sense, it doesn't matter what the subject is accused of. The standard for dismissal as an unpaid official of a private nonprofit organization is lower than that for prison. Subject could always set up his own networked privacy tool? OK, maybe that's a stretch... b^)

>In some sense, it doesn't matter what the subject is accused of.

Yeah, right.

1. This is Jacob Appelbaum: he consistently went over the head of procurement when ordering new paper for the printer. He's been fired.

2. This is Jacob Appelbaum: he's a sleazy pickup artist who's raped at least one person, threatened others and made female employees' lives a living hell. He's been fired.

One of these things is not like the other.

> The standard for dismissal as an unpaid official of a private nonprofit organization is lower than that for prison.

Well, quite. But as soon as you accuse someone of a criminal offense, then they're entitled to use the legal system to defend themselves. Violet's point is that the community needs to stop this from happening again which I have to agree with - if the accused is indeed guilty. But she cannot just charge ahead and demand sweeping reforms before determining whether he is or not.

> Subject could always set up his own networked privacy tool? OK, maybe that's a stretch... b^)

No - Subject needs to answer these very serious charges in front of a judge so that he can either a) clear his name or b) be locked up to protect others from his predatory behavior.

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