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Comment by struct | Hacker News Reader

As much as I like the idea of living with only a few possessions, it strikes me as a constant struggle: where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes you had to buy to send one letter? Are scissors for opening packaging included in his possessions? Nail trimmers? Toiletries? A formal pair of shoes? Do you have to hire all this stuff when you need it, or just keep in a drawer out of sight? And this is what I didn't get about the KonMari method either: a formal suit doesn't "bring me joy" any more than a sink plunger, but both are necessary. How are minimalists able to get away without this cloud of objects following them?

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Well, don't buy a 50 pack of envelopes if you can avoid it. I think most people would reflexively buy a bunch and throw it in a drawer (batteries....) but in the absolute is it worth it?

And how many times have you used your sink plunger? It depends on your situation, but one of the tenants of this lifestyle is that you don't actually have to be prepared for that time where you'll need 2 50-foot ethernet cables.

I don't think the sink plunger or toileteries are the target so much as that box you have in your office filled with USB cables. Or your cup full of 19 different pens (12 of which only half-work).

I think the cloud imagery is such a good example too. You have your plunger next to the toilet, but I bet you stuck 4 or 5 other things down there too (some spare parts from installing the toilet seats?)

The way I follow it is that if there's a decent obvious place for something it's a lot less costly for me to hold onto it (like the suit) than for random crap that I "kinda think" I need to keep. And constant re-evaluation of this. If you're diligent and re-evaluating it constantly you should almost never have a "cloud" of things stacked up in a corner.

I would say it is not a matter of reducing your stuff to an absolute number, but removing what is really unnecessary and/or redundant, trying to reach a minimum.

Before buying anything, I ask myself "do I really need it? can I live without it?". After living in 12 different places, I was gradually leaving a lot of stuff behind, and I became kind of minimalist in the process, being aware of how much unnecessary extra baggage you carry on your shoulders.

I also think that a minimalist way of life doesn't refer only to things, but also to immaterial stuff like extra fees, subscriptions, debts, mortgages, utility bills, etc. They all add weight to that baggage.

I am no where near these extremes, but I am currently not really settled down (travelling then, living abroad now) and everything I buy I buy with the knowledge that whenever I move again - I should have no issues with throwing/giving it away. Everything I care about I can fit in my backpack.

> where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes you had to buy to send one letter? Are scissors for opening packaging included in his possessions? Nail trimmers? Toiletries? A formal pair of shoes? Do you have to hire all this stuff when you need it, or just keep in a drawer out of sight?

(I don't know whether this is official KonMari)

It's allowed to be there, but you don't think of it as a possession: you think of it as disposable. If you need those things when e.g. you're traveling, you buy them there and leave them behind or throw them away. Same thing if you move house. If you lose them you don't worry about it - when you need them you'll buy them. If you end up buying two or three, you don't worry about that either.

> And this is what I didn't get about the KonMari method either: a formal suit doesn't "bring me joy" any more than a sink plunger, but both are necessary.

If you're talking about a suit you wear every day for work that doesn't bring you joy you should try to find a job where you don't need to wear it. If you're talking about having a suit occasionally for weddings or the like it's much better to hire one when you need it - no need to store it, no need to arrange cleaning it, no need to worry about whether it still fits when you dig it out of the cupboard.

You can buy a plunger when you need one - we're talking about maybe $5 every two years.

You can buy single pre-stamped envelopes at the post office. The mark up is only a couple cents so if you're not doing hundreds of mailings it's worthwhile to just buy what you need.

I just finished reading KonMari. I move a lot for work and wanted some inspiration for cutting down the cruft that I've been hauling around over the last decade.

The minimalist idea runs very contrary to how I was raised in a rural community on the plains. The attitude was that you needed to always be prepared. Which meant keeping spares and extras for anything that you might need. Stockpile food, because a blizzard could delay the trucks and the grocery shelves run bare. Keep a water buffalo or at least several 10 gallon drums of potable water stored in the house because the pump on the well might go out or the well might go dry. Always be prepared for having to go without electricity. Keep several gallons of extra gasoline handy. Keep spares for tools or anything that might break down because you don't want to end up driving 100+ miles to the city to get a replacement (Amazon Prime though has done me a world of service).

This kind of thing is a subset of "intentional living" and "intentional communities", where one's life is lived as some sort of ideological point rather than the most direct route.

There's a hint that this might be rather like how some alcoholics have to throw away all their booze and refuse to ever have any in the house as a necessary step to recovering from addiction. People describe having an unhealthy relationship with their "stuff" and then take drastic action to end that relationship almost completely.

It's only really possible for single, childless people, but I think it's only easy to get into that bad stuff-relationship if you're living by yourself. Otherwise the stuff-relationship is subordinated to the person-relationship, and some balance is achieved somehow. Possibly through daily minor arguments.

For me, it seems unconscionable as I don't have a vivid enough memory to live without artefacts to remind me. What does the minimalist do if you give them a present? Do they feel themselves obliged to throw it away or at least re-gift it? Have they not been through the social ritual of being obliged to wear the sweater / display the item they were given lest it be a snub? Or is that what they're trying to get away from?

Makes you think of the olden days, when you could buy a cup of milk, two cigarettes and a spoon of gunpowder at the local shop.

If you are only sending one letter per year, then maybe you should just buy smaller packs, even if they are little more expensive. On other hand you probably have drawers full of useless stuff. Clean out one for things you need, but not very often, like stamps, letters, tape, scissors, etc.

Nail trimmers can live in your bathroom shelf with your soap and shampoo. Then you only need toilet paper, which should be easy to store in any bathroom.

If you need formal shoes often then storing single extra pair (assuming you just have summer and winter shoes, one pair each) isn't a big deal, but more often than not you need formal shoes so rarely that you might as well rent them for the occasion.

Main idea is to get rid of the stuff that doesn't matter and keep only the stuff that does matter and you get use out of. Sure at the moment sink plunger might not give you joy as a thing, but it sure does when your sink clogs.

I keep my important possesions able to fit in a carry-on suitcase, and I have a trunk where I keep refillable stuff - envelopes, refills of the hair product I like, toothpaste bought in bulk.

Everything in the trunk is stuff that could be replaced cheaply with 30m at a supermarket.

they probably borrow from neighbors...?

i definitely run into this problem. i need that _one_ envelope. do i really want to buy 50 to shove the rest into a drawer?

Sounds like you need some kind of community shop, that sells/loans things you want in the way you want it.

You don't need the clothes that society tells you you have to wear at different events, just need 50% of people not to care.

Good luck making the selling of individual envelopes commercially viable!

That said, totally agreed there's a gap for bringing the "sharing economy" to things people buy but rarely use (lawn mowers, leaf blowers, pressure washers, etc.)

I needed 1 envelope last month. It was 1 PLN (0.3 USD) at nearest street shop (kiosk). I don't think they lose money on that. I also bought a pen there for another 1 PLN.

They mostly sell cigarettes, newspapers, chewing gum and tickets, but they keep some envelopes, empty DVDs, pens, lighters, etc - it's not going to expire and they have huge markup, so why not?

Are there no small shops in your country?

I guess you only have superstores around. I just go to the newsagents and buy one for some cents.

> where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes

You could combine individual minimalism with communal sharing of seldom-used stuff. I hope technology will make this a little easier as time goes on, if only to combat loneliness in many parts of society.

where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes you had to buy to send one letter?

The garbage? Sure it's wasteful, but if true minimalism brings you happiness then it might be worth it.

Reminds me of the days I made my own envelopes -- with a piece of paper, a few folds, and glue.

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