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Comment by woodandsteel | Hacker News Reader

Companies hire M.B.A.'s and consulting firms because management is so hard. Alas, I think the fundamental reason for this is that the human psyche was designed by evolution to operate in small foraging bands, not large, hierarchical organizations, and it is really hard to get anything so unnatural to work very well.

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There's many reasons to hire firms besides the one you defend. From the OP:

> In one episode, when I got involved in winding up the failed subsidiary of a large European bank, I noticed on the expense ledger that a rival consulting firm had racked up $5 million in fees from the same subsidiary. “They were supposed to save the business,” said one client manager, rolling his eyes. “Actually,” he corrected himself, “they were supposed to keep the illusion going long enough for the boss to find a new job.”

I've witnessed this approach several times. Another variant That requires extra sociopath points is the double down strategy.

In one case, the principal hired a big consulting firm to the tune of $10M, and created some crazy project that fucked up that part of the company badly. The principal sucked up to some industry group, got a big award, and subsequently got a big promotion and shoved some cannon fodder into his old job.

Next step: cut off the funding oxygen, yank all of the consultants, and blame everything on the new people.

My belief is that, after working in a couple of dysfunctional companies, organization design with proper work and communication processes, and effective management, is the "secret" to company success. Almost no one seems to understand what management is and that it is a job in itself, just like being a designer or engineer is.

That being said, I've studied management and agree that as it's being taught it is indeed inane. Currently, I'm learning how to not manage a company by working as a grunt and being managed. I think this experience will be very valuable in the future as I intent to start a company.

Can you walk us through your idea of the daily work of a manager, since you say it's "a job in itself"? I understand that if you give a person a title and tell them to sit around for 40 hours a week and collect a paycheck, they'll invent ways to stretch that out, but in real terms, what are the daily objectives that a manager must address? How many people can one manage before they need to commit their attention 100% to management? 10 subordinates? 5? 1? Is someone not a "real manager" as long as they have time to do code work on the side? Is a manager who does code automatically less qualified than one that would ensure his managerial duties exclude any time for other pursuits? Is someone only a legitimate "manager" if they went to school for it? Can it be self-taught?

I've had management positions before so I have my own answers to these questions, but I'm curious about yours.

> My belief is that, after working in a couple of dysfunctional companies, organization design with proper work and communication processes, and effective management,]

These are principles that people generally agree with. However, applying them with force from the top can do more harm than good. You can have a couple of possible outcomes:

* The process will be badly designed and ignored. * The process will be badly designed and not ignored.

Designing good systems is very difficult and needs to be based on evidence.

They provide intellectual cover. When you're approaching some completely new line of business, any early decisions you make are bound to be educated guesses. Management consultants are paid to come in, act confident, make wild guesses with apparent certainty, and give you something tangible to show to your backers that you're taking the smartest path. It's simulataneously worthless and extremely valuable.

My current project was strategized, scoped and planned by McKinsey before we even drew the first wireframe. They spent 6 months coming up with a framework that was completely wiped out in the next 6 months. They provided no tangible benefit to the finished project, but who knows if they would have even gotten budget approval without their magical slideshows and spreadsheets.

http://www.discovery.org/a/130

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