Dead iPad battery? Apple just sends another iPad for $99 | Hacker News Reader

Dead iPad battery? Apple just sends another iPad for $99

engadget.com

13 pointsfiaz37 comments

If I get an iPad I'll just do what I did with my first gen iPhone. Use it for 2-3 years until the battery isn't as good as it should be, sell (or give) it to a family member who has wanted your device from day one and is more than happy to pay to get a new battery (if they deem it necessary), next go buy a new device slightly subsidized from selling the old one, finally write a run-on sentence describing this process in vague detail.

This makes complete sense, and I thought this is the way battery replacement for iPods and iPhones always worked. Note you do not get a new iPad. You get a refurbished iPad of the same model. Your iPad then is refurbished and sent to a future customer.

AFAIK Apple stores have a special tool in the back to help assist changing out batteries in iPhones. So they do it while you wait.

It makes no sense. It's the most horribly inefficient system. It wastes additional shipping fuel. It requires you to accept someone elses iPad. Maybe there's a scratch on it. Maybe you've saved something to the hard driv... oh wait.

The process should be this:

  1) Go to newegg.com
  2) Search for "ipad battery"
  3) add to cart
  4) pay with credit card
  5) open package delivered the next day
  6) remove old battery
  7) Insert new battery.

Making the battery removable would make the overall design thicker and less rigid.

While your proposal is good theory, it is not good in practice. For the most part I think that battery technology has advanced to the point that battery replacements should be the exception, not the norm.

I haven't had to replace a battery before a device's EOL in quite some time.

I suppose you don't include every laptop ever made as examples of replaceable batteries in practice. The Apple decision you support here is called "Designed Obsolescence" and it is a big reason our way of life is unsustainable.

I've never not had to replace a battery before EOL, but I take care of my stuff. Maybe your stuff doesn't last as long. Even though my remington shaver said "no serviceable parts, return to manufacturer for repair," when the batteries died after 5 years of use, I opened up that sucker and replaced the two standard AA batteries with new NiCads. I had to cut the wires and solder in new ones, but I didn't have to pay shipping and I didn't have to wait more than a day. I was actually shocked to see that inside were two generic NiCad AA's. The shaver has worked fine ever since.

I don't buy the thicker and less rigid argument. It's simply not good enough to justify the cost in monetary terms or especially environmental terms. Battery covers are a millimeter thick and plenty of devices have replaceable batteries. If Apple can't build a strong enough case to allow batteries to be replaced I'm flabbergasted.

I see no evidence to support your hypothesis, definitely not enough to justify the design decision.

agreed, its not a motivated by design decision alone, the nexus1 kind of proved that.

I see no evidence to support your hypothesis, definitely not enough to justify the design decision.

While it's never been my "day job" or primary function, I've had a fair amount of industrial design experience. Both with formal ID firms, and as general product development (most of my startup experience is with companies that produced some sort of hardware).

To make the battery removable you need to make a "pocket" for the battery to sit in that is separated from the rest of the electronics. You also need to make the battery pack itself thicker than it would need to be if it was just an internal device (plastic casing, etc.). You also need to add some contacts for the battery and other odds and ends.

This probably adds about $3-$5 to the BOM for a device like the iPad. This may sound small, but it is a significant number by the time you factor in the end-user price. It also adds additional weight and design considerations, plus additional thickness to the overall product.

Yes, plenty of devices have removable batteries. And in several cases (like the Droid I just got) the battery cover is a flimsy piece of crap that detracts from the products integrity.

I suppose you don't include every laptop ever made as examples of replaceable batteries in practice.

Yes, I'm quite aware that most other laptops have had replaceable batteries. I've owned dozens of them, and hadn't needed to replace a laptop battery since about 2002. They died of general system failures or complete obsolescence before they needed new batteries. The vast majority of laptops with replaceable batteries have also not been designed for the portability, sleekness, and usage style that the iPad has. Comparing the industrial design of the iPad and its battery to legacy laptops is not an apples-to-apples comparison (pun intended).

I really don't think that when it comes to Apple this is "designed obsolescence" as much as it is recognition that we've been Doing It Wrong for many years.

I also find it ironically humorous that you cite your electronic razor among arguments of designed obsolescence and environmental/sustainable life style arguments. I use a Merkur Futur razor. I replace only the single blade about once a week. The razor handle will last forever, and it does not have replacement cartridges that are grossly over-priced items. My razor also does not have other environmentally unfriendly items like batteries, and motors and other elements that will eventually wear out and be unreplaceable.

Everyone chooses a slightly different way to manage their impact on the world and product choices.

Regarding environmental concerns, the way I read this is that if your battery dies Apple will give you a refurbished unit with a new battery for a little more than what a replacement battery would likely cost. It seems like this would encourage users to keep devices LONGER, if they can get a freshened up unit along with a new battery. It's not like it has ever been stated that if the battery fails you must immediately plant your iPad in a landfill.

That's wild, I have 3 laptops right now, one purchased in 2001 (dell latitude), one in 2003 (dell inspiron) and a macbook pro from 2006 and all work perfectly -- all with dead batteries.

I still use them. One for my home theater, one for monitoring web sites, and one to type this comment.

I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, but I think your stuff could last longer or you could fix them. One time, the inspiron died on me. I called dell and they said i had to send it back for a new mobo at $500. I said, "No way!" and opened it up. Turns out, it was just a loose connection on the power panel! Fixed it for free and saved a little piece of the planet in the process.

One thing we agree on is that we've been doing it wrong for many years. The wrong is disposable. The wrong is not repairing things. The wrong is filling up landfills.

Apple, with these battery decisions, is exacerbating the problems caused by the wrongs we have been doing for years.

Regarding the razor issue, you're right -- not the best example of sustainability, but it was a gift and it was a decade ago before I realized I have an impact on the planet. I no longer shave every day and I use a $19 trimmer once a week (sometimes month or quarter) -- traditional razors just won't cut it (pun intended) after that much growth and I leave a 5 o'clock -- better for the skin and I don't waste shaving cream. When I run across a strop, I'm going to start using my great granddad's straight razor.

I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, but I think your stuff could last longer or you could fix them.

No offense taken. However, I've been fixing laptops since 1993 when I worked at IBM and was THE guy in the US that all the broken Thinkpad 700's were sent to for repair. My home electronics shop is pretty well equipped. I've lost count of the devices I've fixed or upgraded for myself and friends.

how do you feel about the environmental concerns?

My Nexus One is slimmer and lighter than an iPhone with a larger screen and replaceable battery (with a super solid battery cover, none the less). Apple has some of the best product designers in the industry - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that "technical infeasibility" is not a valid excuse here.

I wonder if it is possible to open the iPad? With care, experience, and a little luck you can open an iPhone without leaving a mark, but the smaller perimeter/area ratio of the iPad makes it more difficult to achieve a torsion box effect with edge friction.

Glass faced iMacs now use whopping big magnets to hold the glass in, but there isn't room for that in an iPad and I doubt you'd get enough friction to stiffen the unit.

My two cents: If I were Apple I'd glue that front glass on with temperature operated adhesive to complete the torsion box. Opening would require a heating fixture (perhaps RF based), resealing might involve a robot to precisely apply the adhesive, since Mr. Jobs would not tolerate any oozing. It would not be a Genius Bar operation.

Sure, but most Apple users replace their iPods and iPhones every two years or so, including myself. I've never run into a battery problem because I've always upgraded before it matters.

These products are essentially disposable computers, and that's why I like them.

I'd like to see Apple encourage its consumers to be a little more conscious of the planet and their place in it. America's disposable culture is ruining the planet and taking resources from those who live on the land where it's mined.

Making the battery removable would make the overall design thicker and less rigid.

My Nexus One disagrees.

My Nexus One disagrees.

Is there a control case that compares an integrated-battery N1 with a removable-battery model?

Or was this just an attempt at a witty post?

Ah, and this is where Apple's expertise lies. They want a cut in every transaction that has anything to do with their product. From purchasing, to buying apps, to all maintenance. And they give you a feel-good experience from it too.

The average customer will be impressed that they got a "new" iPad for only $99. But really, Apple is just changing the battery and housing for you and selling to the next guy for $99. They make a lot more money doing this than by selling user-replaceable batteries.

Not necessarily. They could just charge $99 for a new battery and sell them in the store like they sell laptop batteries which are around the same price.

While there may be a bit to be made in that $99, I really don't think it's much. Every replacement battery Apple sells for their current line of portables is $129. The iPad battery most definitely has a lower capacity and thus costs less, but there is labor involved in refurbishing as well.

This hypothesis doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Apple charges US$129 for a replacement battery for a Macbook Pro. It is clearly less trouble to them to sell batteries through their distribution channels and have customers do the service than it is to deal with the logistics of fooling around with refurbished units. Amongst other things, when they get a unit in they have to test it thoroughly to make sure they aren't passing a lemon on to the next customer.

So if they are able to make a tidy bit of money selling Macbook Pro batteries directly to end users for $129, I infer that if they could, they would sell iPad batteries for $99 or even $129 to end users. It doesn't make any sense to charge $30 less and absorb the logistics headaches in the name of making money from service.

Clearly there is some other constraint that makes refurbishing the units the least inefficient choice for Apple.

Most likely that constraint is the shape of the battery. They probably did the same thing they do in the unibody mac, which is make the battery fill every possible nook and cranny, with no real compartmentalization to speak of. With that type of design, you can get more capacity and a thinner device, but user service would probably be so difficult that people would be breaking things left and right. And even though users would be breaking their own devices, they would be frustrated and take it out on Apple, tarnishing their feel-good image. A $99 replacement program is much more beneficial PR-wise.

FWIW, I'm sure the case will be the same with the iPad as it is with the iPhone/iPod ( http://bit.ly/bwIh23). I have no problem paying 1/5th the Apple price to replace my own battery. On a mildly unrelated note, I've completely stopped using Apple for anything that can be fixed at home at all. Their prices for replacement parts are obnoxious.

> I've completely stopped using Apple for anything that can be fixed at home at all. Their prices for replacement parts are obnoxious.

Have you ever tried to purchase a car part from an authorized dealer? The spread between original parts and aftermarket parts for automobiles puts the computer business to shame.

And do what with the old battery?

The answer should be "recycle or properly dispose of old battery." But for most customers the answer will be "toss old battery in trash."

My local Apple dealer recycles old batteries. You're going in there to buy a new one, you give them the old one while you're there.

"it is important to sync your iPad with iTunes to back up your contacts, calendars, email account settings, bookmarks, apps, etc. Apple is not responsible for the loss of information when servicing your iPad."

Equally important, it would seem, would be to wipe your iPad clean before sending it in, after backing it up of course.

Think about this for a moment. let's say that a vendor, Apple in this case, agreed to service your iPad but it is a one day turnaround.

Under what circumstances would you give them your iPad without backing up all of your data first? Under what circumstances would you trust them with anything sensitive?

When I take my MacBook Pro in for service they make me sign a consent form acknowledging that I can lose all of my data even if they're just replacing a broken key cap. Given that Apple provide iTunes and Time Machine, there's really no excuse for not having everything synced and backed up. The trust issue is something else, of course.

Yes, I was thinking of the relative ease with which you can reset an iPod (and presumably an iPad) to factory defaults and the restore from backup vs. a MacBook, and since the iPad you get back is not the one you send in, it seems like a logical precaution to take, but "equally important" was probably not the best way to put it.

It's consistent with the iPad's central concept: it's about simple, zero-hassle access to media, online or stored. It has to be much more hassle-free than a laptop, to justify its purchase and create the niche netbooks tried and failed to create and occupy (1).

Zero config, zero user-serviceable hardware, dramatic restrictions on applications' ability to behave puzzlingly, almost-zero connectors: it's just a "magic" window on your media, marketed for the 80% of non-geeks who just wish to forget the hardware.

(1) netbooks might have been a success, but not in the niche they originally targeted.

Do you really think it's less hassle to package up your ipad, put it in the mail, wait days for a new one to return and then unpack the ipad and reinstall all your stuff, than to simply replace a battery?

It's not that hard.

If the process works at all like how they handle warranty issues, then they send you the replacement before you send your device to them. This means you have use of your old device in the meantime (assuming it isn't entirely dead).

When the package arrives, you take the new one out of the box and put the old one into it and slap on the prepaid sticker and drop it in the mail. Sync the new device with iTunes and you're done - everything is right back where it was on the device.

It's just about the same level of difficulty as ordering a replacement battery and waiting for it to arrive - except they also take back the old battery and recycle it for you. If you live near an Apple store, it's even easier because you should be able to just go there and swap the device immediately without messing around with shipping.

Most people aren't afraid of postal services, whereas many get totally frightened by the idea of servicing a computer-like thingie, software or hardware. Those computer-unenthousiasts are iPad's primary target; besides, they probably represent a bigger and easier market than geeks.

So I guess personalized engraving is out?

So if it has minor water damage you cannot get a new battery?

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