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Comment by nacho2sweet | Hacker News Reader

Buying groceries Germany Aldi's and Lidos was the most stressful part of my time there.

Why?

Usually they scan items faster than you can bag them. The area after the scanner is very small and takes only few items so you have to move fast.

I saw below that US Aldi cashiers put the items into a grocery cart. That doesn't happen in Germany as you are expected to do that yourself.

Everyone has their own strategy of how to place items onto the line to slow down the cashier at just the right moment.

> Everyone has their own strategy of how to place items onto the line to slow down the cashier at just the right moment.

I am German and and I've never heard of this ^^. You just put the items on the belt in the order that they should go in the bag, then you can pack very quickly.

> in the order that they should go in the bag

That's one of them. Even that is something that you don't usually do outside Germany. To get to the next level I recommend to put weighted produce to the end or just after items that are not straightforward to pack.

I do that in the US even where they have an employee bagging my stuff. In fact, I do that to ensure optimal packetization—for an IP analogy. :)

Otherwise I end up with 2 pieces of fruit in 1 bag, 1 bottle of soap by itself in another bag, followed by again more fruit in the 3rd bag… It's a fun fragmentation problem.

I always try that (grouping things I want bagged together) but usually the bagger just does his own thing anyway.

Knapsack/binpacking

As a german in the US, I suddenly felt as if I had a OCD about the way to bag stuff. Store employees were more or less dumping things kind of randomly in bags without sorting by weight and by robustnes of the product. On the other hand declinining help with bagging seemed to be kind of unusual.

Other differences I noticed: Time at checkouts was at least 2-3 times longer than in Germany, even at the better german supermarkets cashiers are much faster. Also, in Germany I never encountered cashiers to comment on the goods I bought (I don't mind much, but it still felt a bit like an intrusion in privacy. I once bought a glass of Ghee - a common ingredient in southern german cuisine - and the cashier went on and on about how unusual it was that a white guy would buy it).

>Germany I never encountered cashiers to comment on the goods I bought (I don't mind much, but it still felt a bit like an intrusion in privacy. I once bought a glass of Ghee - a common ingredient in southern german cuisine - and the cashier went on and on about how unusual it was that a white guy would buy it)

In the US service employees are required to be fake "friendly." This was an attempt at that. I hate it myself.

I always associated ghee with India, I had no idea it was used in Germany too.

Its not really. Most people would get it from the "asian shop", but many "German" supermarkets have a small shelf for "international" stuff like asian noodles, taco shells and russian stuff.

Seriously, Ghee is Butterschmalz

Ghee is just slightly different - it is cooked longer so it is more caramelised, and you can taste that.

Ever thought why you shouldn't use real butter to fry meat? Its because it will turn brown and black because of proteins. You can however extract the fat from butter by melting it: clarified butter. Ghee - if it has not been fermented/flavoured - is essentially clarified butter.

    > > in the order that they should go in the bag
    > is something that you don't usually do outside Germany

That's a basic sign of civilization, after workable plumbing and provision of healthcare.

But the area isn't big enough. It only works if the cashier wait for you to put all your items in the belt, before start scanning. If you're still putting items on the belt when the cashier starts, the stuff will pile up on the little shelf thingy after the cash register. Now they're in the wrong order when you need to speed pack them afterwards.

at least here the belts are loooong

I'm sure they make the area small to force the customer to pack the stuff quickly.

>The area after the scanner is very small and takes only few items so you have to move fast.

What's the logic behind only having a very small space for scanned items. Aldi in Denmark normally have packing tables, but still, you can't even get your stuff in the basket quickly enough. Interestingly Lidl (another German supermarket), decided to go with normal longer areas after the scanner, because the Danes expect that.

I don't feel like Aldi has ever properly justified the almost non-existing area for scanned items.

It makes the customer pack faster. Once the next one is served you usually are almost gone. That doesn't happen if there is more space. It also saves floor space in the market.

Except Aldi, Lidl and the like German supermarkets also have the long areas after the cashier. Your items often roll away and you can't reach them anymore.

Where i have been in Germany, there was no space after the barcode scanner, you directly put your cart there, and they dump everything in the cart after scanning (the cart is quite shallow, I guess it's to limit the drop height). Next to the exit, there is a table where you can sort your groceries into bags, and take as much time as you want doing so.

Yes, I think the layout is exactly the same everywhere. There are two small spaces of around 15cm times 30cm if I had to guess and a small notch to hold a basket separating them.

Especially in the more centrally located stores many people directly bag their items then and there.

The two US stores I've seen have kept one cart after the cashier. When done checking out, you take the newly full cart and leave your empty there for the next customer.

That sounds like hell. It's already awful waiting for some old woman to rifle through coupons, and pay by check. The fact that she now has to bag all her food would make me just leave the line.

You'd be amazed how fast she goes with all the pressure.

Well, they have no coupons and accept no checks. Plus, many old people that need a walking frame are actually better with moving stuff into the shopping cart then I am (not that I'm particularly slow).

Well I guess that is 2/3 of the problem taken care of!

The key is to just dump everything back into the cart and bag it later, on the table behind the cashiers. I sort my stuff by how well it can be stacked - pasta, cans, potatoes and the like go first, then milk, cheese, etc, and finally fruit, delicate vegetables, crisps, and other things you don't want crushed. You can just shove it all in the cart that way - I can match the cashier's speed.

AldiSort!

What's an Aldi customer's incentive to do this? Is the cashier going to throw your groceries on the floor if you don't keep up?

If not... why not take your time and bag your groceries safely?

> What's an Aldi customer's incentive to do this?

Social pressure. You've just waited in a queue, and there are people behind you in that queue.

Really, wow I never felt that. I always put them in my bag at the natural speed. The only social pressure I felt was when paying before finishing packing. This lead to the next persons groceries being mixed in with mine and accidentally packing their stuff etc. Now I take my time and finish packing before paying to avoid this issue and it is all good.

well you tactic doesn't work that well in Austria. The peer pressure for slow people is noticeable (especially during busy times).

But that's one of the things I like about that. You take a cart - put everything in the cart and pack it into your boxes / bags afterwards and don't waste everybodies time. But this may be a very German thing to do.

I bet airport security is pleasant there.

You would be wrong. It's pretty much the same, the only difference is that you don't need to take off your shoes most of the time. However, opting out of the body scanner (where those are deployed) is a much bigger hassle than in the US.

The people in line behind you will get angry, as everyone expects an Aldi checkout line to move fast. And because the cashiers have a quota to fulfil in terms of scanned items per hour, they will start putting your stuff into your cart if you're excessively slow about it.

It's also not unsafe in any way, I've never damaged anything. You have all the time in the world to bag your stuff safely after the checkout ;)

The reason why there is so little space is because there are supposed to be baggers. I guess they finally got rid of them to save money.

I dont think this is true. In Germany there never has been a 'bagger-culture' :)

They are so small, so that you just pass through the items into your shopping cart. Basically you don't have much of an option. If you shop without a shopping cart (like me buying just a few things that fit into my bagpack) the cassier might suggest that I take a cart next time.

Then there is this side-board across the checkout that you can use to bag your purchase.

What you also see a lot in Germany is people taking empty cardboard boxes from the shelves and use them instead of bags at the checkout. It is quick and convenient.

Then my marketing book lied to me.

When was Germany supposed to have had baggers according to the book?

When Aldi came to Denmark and didn't redesign the checkout for not having baggers.

Germany never had baggers. In fact, to me as a German, the job of a bagger appears about as nonsensical as that of a telephone sanitizer.

Walmart had baggers for the short time they were operating here.

Did they? I remember shopping at Walmart around 2000, but I don't recall seeing baggers there.

What are baggers? People standing after the checkout that put stuff into bags for you? If so, that sounds quite unusual, unnecessary, and even annoying to me.

Annoying?

Yes. Here in Australia the cashiers usually do it for you, into rather flimsy single-use plastic bags.

Seems a bit foreign to my German soul, too.

Well here in Slovenia I see this approach does not fly with old people. They will simply take their time to bag their stuff properly. What is the cashier going to do but wait? Throw stuff on the floor?

This! +1 for not letting yourself be pressured by the queue.

Most UK supermarkets are shrinkng space after scan to near Aldi levels. A couple will ask if you want help packing (which unless you're elderly and infirm will slow things considerably)

it's quite common to see a set of 4 trolley bags (£1 from pound shop, much more from TM holder) which are designed to fill a standard trolley and dump stuff in those to drop in car boot. Of course you'll barely be able to move the one with all the tins and bottles without ripping the handles off, but...

...you BAG your groceries at Aldis? I just normally grab a few of the empty boxes from the cereal section.

Boxes are annoying to transport on a bike. So yes, I use my pannier or a bag.

The most common strategy of most Germans I know is to simply put everything into the cart after it's scanned, move the cart towards the car and dump everything into some sort of carry box in the trunk. Carry that box (or boxes) into the house at home and put the stuff you bought wherever it is stored.

If I shop by bike I usually have a backpack that I brought for shopping open at the cashier and dump everything in it upon scan.

One time use bags are sort of faded out. There's no more free bags (I think). Makes ecological sense imo.

Have the same experience when shopping in Germany. Im very supriced how ineffective there system is, with an non excistent area after the cashier. You have to trash all stuff down fast and then pack/repack afterwords somewere else and you get stressed.

The swedish system feels superior in my honest opinion. There is a big area afterword divided by a Y bar so 2 people can be served simultaneous. The 2 top Y boms are electrically controlled by the cashier so groceries goes to either left or right side.

https://www.ica.se/imagevaultfiles/id_53554/cf_6099/kassan.j...

So when one is finshed, that person can pack everything as he/she wants without hurry while the other persons groceries are served simultaneous by the cashier and that persons stuff goes to the other side.

Useally you could pack your stuff without hurry while the 2nd person is served. But if both side temporary is not finish because two big shopper both Y boms could be closed so 3 people could be served simultiously. Two could pack and the 3rds groceries could still be handeled by the cashier.

And not to forgett, everyone in sweden (almost) payes with card which speeds stuff up alot. You pay while the cashier scaning the groceries. When finished you just press "ok".

The system is very efficient if you measure throughput. It does not feel as nice and you are pressured to pack very fast which is why the more upmarket stores use the Y-layout or at least a long surface after the cashier (never seen the closing bar in Germany though). Customers stopped caring as it is used for decades now. FWIW I usually pack while the items are scanned which means I can leave as soon as I paid which one can't do with the other layout.

But why card payment is so hideously slow in Germany is something I can't understand. After they gave you the final sum you need to tell the cashier that you want to pay with card, wait for the terminal to light up, insert the card (finally, up until recently you needed to hand the card to the cashier for them to insert it – technically you can insert earlier and it still works but many cashiers don't know and stop the process), wait once more, enter your PIN, wait once more, remove the card, wait again for the receipt to print (otherwise the cashier tells you stay as they can't verify payment before that). In the time it takes you can pay with the same card five times in Sweden – and didn't need to speak a word (great for me as my Swedish is only rudimental).

Card payment at Aldi (Süd) for me is about as fast as it takes Rewe to register that I put the card into the terminal. Aldi also never asks for signature and always goes for PIN because it's faster. It doesn't have to be slow, but sadly in most stores it is. (Debit card here, though. No idea how it is for credit cards and whether they work differently.)

If you ever have the chance to visit Sweden I urge you to try paying with card there (well, it's easier than cash there anyway). It's unbelievably fast.

But you are right, among the German stores Aldi has one of the best terminal.

It is only at Aldi where you have no area behind the cashier, all other have those and I hate them. You have to stand in line and wait until some slowly moving /&%%/ is packing all his stuff in slow motion into his much too small bag, while the cashier and everybody else has to wait before he slowly moves back to the cashier, pulls out his money, again in slow motion. Just a waste of time. The Aldi system doesn't allow for such unsocial behaviour.

> You have to trash all stuff down fast and then pack/repack afterwords somewere else and you get stressed.

1. Always have one or more foldable boxes in your car (like https://i.imgur.com/GG4FfAi.jpg). Make sure that those boxes can carry a heavy load.

2. Take one of those boxes into the store with you.

3. Load all objects onto the belt in the order in which you want to put them into the box (heaviest first).

4. Then just dump them into the box after checking as they come.

5. Finally just load the whole box into your car without repacking anything or carrying multiple bags.

I'm shopping in German supermarkets every week and I never get stressed. On those other hand I'm often annoyed by how slow things are in supermarkets in other countries.

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