How to Win Friends and Influence People Summarized | Hacker News Reader

How to Win Friends and Influence People Summarized

westegg.com

164 pointsblackswan48 comments

If you do want to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", try to get an older version of it. It has been rewritten over and over by Carnegie's successors, with more "relevant" but less interesting anecdotes. The original is filled with fun anecdotes about turn-of-the-century robber barons. Good stuff.

The only thing I am not sure about in this book is the whole "a person's name is the sweetest sound" thing. It is hard to use this piece of advice correctly, and more often than not comes across as " I just read Carnegie's book the other night". When I hear my name being used just for the sake of throwing it in a sentence, I make a mental check of whether I am being manipulated, and this is pretty much the only effect.

At the risk of referring to that other site, you're not the only one that's uncomfortable:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/b525v/dae_h...

Same thing with me. If I hear that someone except from my closest friends utters my name while speaking directly to me, all my alarm bells start ringing. It's stupid, because I know what my name is and people who did that in the past tend to turn out to be malicious.

I think it really depends of the person speaking to you. If he's talking to you with a superior voice, yes I would feel manipulated. But someone saying it with a smile and genuinely would make me feel happy

Nope. People who screwed me over in the past were smiling and saying my name with very pleasant and respectful voice with intention to genuinely make me happy.

On the other hand my friends use my name only when they talk with each other about me in my presence or when they call me to get my attention.

I haven't really been screwed over, but I also become cautious and alert when my name is used (outside of a couple people). My typical name and names for my friends are: Hey, Yo, Dude. Oddly, for members of the opposite sex, I tend to use pet names and or say their name in a melodic tone (ex: Amanda -> Adamanana)

Good point, although I think it depends on the context. I agree that people who just throw my name randomly in the middle of sentences come of as insincere and transparent. It almost feels like a teacher in the middle of a boring lecture trying to make sure I'm paying attention. But if I run into someone that I've only met once before and they remember my name, I'm instantly more interested in what that person has to say.

I find that there is big difference between "Jim, I need to talk to you." and "Hey, how's it going Jim?". When someone leads into a conversation with my name I typically anticipate a negative context. On the other hand, if someone (particularly acquaintances) uses my name mid greeting or conversation, I find it incredibly comforting.

Well, NZMSV, I think we all could agree that we don't like being manipulated. But as someone who is more self-aware and perceptive than most, NZMSV, wouldn't you agree that the name trick is just a component of what people really want: recognition. The point is to very quickly pick up on the story they tell about themselves, and play it back to them.

I wish The Gulag Archipelago were search-able online somewhere. There is a chapter where Solzhenitsyn is describing the attitude of the various ethnic groups who occupy the same hell-hole prison that he is in. A prison where many were confronted with the choice between licking others plates and starving to death.

I can't remember if it was Croatians or whom, but he described a particular group as being the nicest, most generous bunch of men, despite the fact they were dying of hunger. He mentions that this one person would always address him by his full name (including the patronymic) with the intent to show respect and endearment.

I think this usage of a person's name embodies what Carnegie was trying to get across.

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If you have children, try addressing them by their full name. It's the closest thing to their actual personage that came come from your mouth, and it's a pleasure to take the extra time to utter it because you love them so much.

I think the key is not to try to figure out where to sprinkle someone's name into a sentence, but to figure out how to like them enough to want to use their name.

[/edit]

I thought having your parent enumerate out your middle name(s) was the classic sign that you're in deep shit…

Not in Russia, where first/patronymic is a proper formal address. Just good manners. Very good manners under the circumstances.

I think this anecdote was in his short story, 'One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich' if I'm not mistaken? And I think the plate lickers were the first to die.

Yes, but when it's a parent talking to a little kid, the formal address can mean one of two things:

a) they are being funny, in the "look at you being all grown up" sort of way;

b) the kid's in trouble.

Funny how some things are international that way :)

I think you mean this line of 'One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich' ?

http://books.google.com/books?id=AyYUCrb7M1sC&lpg=PP1...

"Paclo raised his head. "Didn't they put you in the cooler, Ivan Denisovich? And are you still alive?" (They simply couldn't teach Western Ukrainians to change their ways. Even in camp they were polite to people and addressed them by their full name.)"

Kinda nice how google books enables a 'Good Will Hunting' moment without the genius, eh? :D

There's a difference between "Hey Kurt! Nice to see you!" and "We offer some excellent options, Kurt, for things we hope you'll spend money on".

As an example, every time I walk into the Y a guy named John says "Hi Kurt". He did this for roughly two weeks before I even knew his name. While I understand that he won't be calling me on my birthday, the fact that he even knows my name makes me feel more welcome there. It's the exact opposite of the comma-Kurt-comma treatment.

People are exceptionally good at "sensing" dishonesty. I think less is more when it comes to using names, but less is also better than none. Maybe just avoid using someone's name after a comma. :)

I think the key is not to go out of your way to fit a person's name into a sentence you already were planning to say, but instead do things like greeting them by name. As you point out, it's much more likel to be interpreted as being friendly rather than bei manipulative.

I used to be a big fan of this book, but every time I tried applying the principles, I only did it in the 1-2 "insipired" weeks, right after reading or re-reading the book. Then, as time passed, I gradually shifted into my old habits.

I used to blame my weak willpower for a while for that - but now I think the problem could be with the book itself. I feel the problem is that this book focuses too much on the 'outside', the presentation layer, instead of the 'inside'. It's how to act like you're a successful, popular person with lots of friends, even if you're far from it on the inside.

Of course, many have noted that acting "as if" will eventually turn you into that person, I think that's true only if you actively focus on that goal. The book does not. It only occasionally pays lip service to "inner character" (ten pages about smiling a lot... and in the end "oh by the way, you actually have to be nice for this to work").

Having said that, I still think it's a very good book for many geeks who have no idea about social norms at all, to provide as sort of tutorial on this topic.

Sounds like you had a similar experience to mine. The book has powerful concepts but is dangerous for the soul.

The title of this book always put me off - but I eventually picked it up and I'm glad I did. It is not a book about how to be a jerk. The content is excellent, despite the cheesy/manipulative sounding title. Available in audiobook too.

Much of the advice in this book can be explained by people wanting to feel important. Doing anything that makes people feel less important (criticizing, arguing, saying "you're wrong") doesn't help your situation. Doing anything that makes people feel more important (give sincere appreciation, remember a person's name, let others talk about themselves) likely will help your situation.

I still recommend reading this book. You'll get a lot more out of it than you will from summaries, because the book contains real-life examples that clarify what each principle means and how it can be applied. If you're put off by the title, remember that it was written in 1936. "Influence people," sounds very manipulative today, but in the book it simply means "to be an influential person." I think that's an important distinction to make, because the latter is more relationship-oriented than the former.

Good summary, though reading the actual book may make it easier to internalize those principles. I figure that's similar to the 10,000-hour rule for becoming an expert in a field: the more time you spend internalizing something, the more likely you'll actually use what you just read.

That's true, but summaries like these are very useful in two cases:

1) People who've already read the book (like me). Keeping big books around is a waste of space, but a list like this can bring the content of the book flooding back.

2) People who aren't going to buy the book or think it sounds lame, but who could be convinced by getting a taste of what it offers.

I'd certainly advise reading the book, but I think there's still a ton of value in summaries like this.

I find it depressing that the best way to get on someone's good side is a combination of gratuitous flattery and ignoring their faults. Have you ever noticed how much of our language is devoted to simply not offending people?

I disagree. I think flattery backfires, because most people can detect it. Flattery is what comes out of your mouth if your thoughts are not genuine. Dale Carnegie doesn't promote ignoring people's faults. His book is about how to work around or correct people's faults without insulting them.

If you read the book, it specifically tells you to not resort to gratuitous flattery and instead give genuine, meaningful, and honest praise. The book also suggests you to point out people's faults in a more indirect and encouraging manner, so as to incite a desire to improve rather than a doubt of one's abilities.

I've always wanted to build a site that does a tl;dr of advice books, since it always feels like a few simple things plus a boatload of stories and blah blah etc.

If you want a piece of http://www.squeezedbooks.com , you're welcome to it. I'd love to hear your ideas about making it better.

Phillip Greenspun puts it rather nicely on a review of "Crossing the Chasm": "This book illustrates a fault in the publishing industry. If you have a 50-page idea it is too long for a magazine. But it is too short for a book. So if you wanted to get it distributed before the Web came along, you had to drop in words until you reached 200 pages."

Ironically, I feel that Getting Things Done (of all things :) needs this treatment more than many other books. I think GTD ideas would be much better digestible in form of concise 30-50 page article as opposed to the tedious and inflated read the actual book is.

But that takes the fun out of reading the books. Plus, the advice in the Carnegie book are well known. As in, they're pretty obvious. But i think the way he tells the story to emphasize his point is what makes the book such a classic.

I too resisted reading it for a long time because of the silly title and because I don't like reading "advice" books. But i broke down a few years ago and actually read it and it was a good read.

The book is a classic, its advice looks sensible, but I always found the title dreadfully cynical.

Having a friend is something else than knowing someone you can influence. It seems to me that finding real friends is much harder than applying this sensible, but limited advice.

As someone above hinted at, I think the title is more a product of the times. When the book was written, "influence people" probably meant more like what "be influential" or "be a trusted source" means today.

Think of...

- a few real people you like, and would like to know better

- the most convincing people you know

- the best leader you ever followed

How do those people fare alongside Carnegie's recipes for success? In my case, I'd say "not too well".

I read Dale Carnegie's book 4-5 times over because I enjoyed reading it.

It really backfired on me one time, though. I was staying in a hostel and some guy was angry at me (it's not important why). I decided to go for the "take the blame, and agree that it's your fault to disarm your opponent who expected a fight". The angry guy really felt like I was patronizing and I didn't give a shit about him, which just made him more angry. Oops.

I was convinced that my Carnegie verbal kung fu was better than that. I made note and next time I'll argue briefly before conceding and moving on.

I also agree with someone in this thread who said that it's annoying when you suspect that these techniques are being used on you. I have a friend who reads those kinds of books and I regularly wonder if he is being genuine when he asks my opinion about something.

I think these ideas are probably true in every era and culture, blackswan, being based on universal truths about human nature. Applying them mechanically I am sure you will agree is a terrific idea. Don't you?

Thanks for the post blackswan. Each of your posts is better than the last. Even the ones I didn't understand why you posted, blackswan, not being of such a high caliber as yourself. I have modded you up blackswan. Keep up the fine work, blackswan.

Now I must be off to my Toastmasters meeting.

I recommend to read the book. Without reading it is hard to understand the principles behind it. Book shows practical examples throughout and explains how other person feels when each principle is applied.

I'm not a big fan of HTWFAIP. It's basically "don't be a jerk". A lot of geeks are good at that already, and could actually afford to be a bit more of a jerk.

This is the problem, most people don't even know if they are being a jerk or not. I thought I had good social skills until I read HTWFAIP. It made me realize how socially inept I was. Turns out the main message in most social intelligence books is the emphasis of empathy; it is actually a hard skill to learn and one that's usually underestimated by the majority of people especially geeks.

Steve Blank had an interesting post about this: http://steveblank.com/2010/02/08/emulating-empathy/

Empathy - often poorly defined. Do you mean empathy - you "put yourself in other people's shoes" (i.e. you are not a psychopath), or the ability to read people?

People with lots of empathy who can't "read people" come across as ... awkward. Or dorky. Yeah ... the word is "dorky". Kinda like Simon Tan.

Attached to that, though, is that there are different levels of "jerkness." Most of us could do with being more jerk-like when it comes to defending or promoting our own interests and ideas, but we need far fewer jerks who try to mess up other people's lives. Sadly, they all seem to get lumped in under the same term..

I just listened to the audiobook and jotted down very similar notes on my whiteboard. Thanks for sharing!

There's only one way to make people like you, actually, or am I misreading that sentence? ;)

Don't criticize, condemn or complain. Certainly don't condemn, that's just being a dick.

Be careful about criticising, will that really and I mean really help?

Complain? Trying to stay positive is good for your mental health. Never complaining, not so much. Completely hiding your feelings is bad for one of the most important things in life: Making a true and honest connection with other people.

Give honest and sincere appreciation. Or to put in a more general way, seek honesty and communication.

Arouse in the other person an eager want. Aha! This must be the secret to influencing, but.. uhm... how do you do that exactly?

Become genuinely interested in other people. Sure, again seek genuinely human connections, that's a good thing.

Smile. :)

Remember that a person's name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language. Not for me, you can call me anything as long as you're good to me. A great old guy completely screwed up my name once, to the point of calling me a completely different name. By the time I realized he was NOT talking to someone else, it was in front of company and I didn't want to embarrass the old man. He kept calling a name which was 100% not my name, but he was a great guy! I like that guy a lot. So yeah, what ever. It's not about the name, it's about showing you care about someone, the name's just a small part of that.

Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. In other words, interrupting people is rude, and talking too much is also kind of a dick move.

Talk in terms of the other person's interests. Communicating with others is honestly hard, it really is. One "trick" you can use is try and frame things in a way the other person can understand, use metaphors invoking things they like etc. As you communicate with someone the understanding between you and them will grow and you can communicate more with less effort.

Make the other person feel important - and do it sincerely. Oh I bet that's another secret, and how do you exactly and sincerely make people feel important? All I can guess is listening and communicating without treating them a like an inferior.

The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. Sure don't be that guy that looooves arguments. Unless you're having dinner with Brits, arguments are just damn good fun, it's bad if you can't hold your own! And some, in fact often the most important arguments can NOT be avoided. In fact, a pathological avoidance of arguments will in the long term NOT make you popular. The above rule can be put more simply as: "Don't be a dick."

Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say, "You're wrong" Don't be a dick.

If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically. Be honest, communicate, don't be afraid of failure or embarrassment.

Begin in a friendly way. Don't be a dick.

Get the other person saying "yes, yes" immediately. And how do you do that exactly? Do you open with: Is the sun bright or what?

Let the other person do a great deal of the talking. Don't be a dick.

Let the other person feel that the idea is his or hers. Or maybe you should seek agreement, and try and make them see things your way and tell them how their way of thinking inspired yours, and don't be a manipulative sociopath.

Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view. Don't be a dick. Be honest, communicate... I feel like I'm repeating myself.

Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires. I am repeating myself.

Appeal to the nobler motives. Yes appeal to things which are good and legal, not damaging and/or illegal things.

Dramatize your ideas. Communicating with other is really hard. You can't just dump a succinct thought in your head and expect everyone else to get it.

Throw down a challenge. Or offer something that's fun. Just don't bring people down and don't be a dick.

Begin with praise and honest appreciation. Positivity, honest communication, etc.

Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly. Don't be a dick, but do be honest and sincere. Don't be an obtuse prick, people do appreciate honest communication.

Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person. Don't be a dick.

Ask questions instead of giving direct orders. Use the Socratic method of teaching. If you can that is. That shit ain't easy!

Let the other person save face. Don't be a dick, and try not to embarrass people.

Praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement. Be "hearty in your approbation and lavish in your praise. You might not want to "make it rain" with cash, but verbal recognition cost you nothing so the ROI is like infinite.

Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to. Yes, when most people think you don't think much of them, they'll meet your expectations.

Use encouragement. Didn't we just talk about that? Make the fault seem easy to correct. Don't be a dick, be honest but positive and don't embarrass people.

Make the other person happy about doing the thing you suggest. The best you can do is invest a lot of effort into honest communication and making the other person feel respected and that you think of them highly. And then try to tell them why what you suggest is important to you and try to communicate your ideas as best as you can, dramatically, with things they are interested in, etc.

And if that's not enough, you're screwed. But maybe they'll still do it. Just don't be a dick or a sociopath.

Now recently I by accident (pointless small talk before a meeting) found out my manager and I share a common interest. We've been talking about it often because we enjoy talking about it.

And recently I also mentioned I wished one of the projects I'm on had him as a manager, but I was also happy he was happy not be part of that cluster fuck.

Yet I've never red "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and I haven't seen this website before today.

All I try to do is:

1. Not be a dick.

2. Be honest.

3. Be positive.

3. Avoid fear, embarrassment, false pride, etc.

This book is filled with great anecdotes and effective strategies. I've used a lot of them, however there are some downsides.

1) By constantly making people feel good about themselves, you create a sense of entitlement and pride which can be very difficult to work with when you need them to stand down. There is a reason they tear you down before they build you up in boot camp.

2) People who religiously practice this style of communication can seem annoying and manipulative, even if they are successful and popular. When I've followed the advice in this book completely, I've ended up feeling more popular but also more alone.

I've found a sprinkled dose reality check can be a good thing for all involved, particularly those you care most about.

I've ended up feeling more popular but also more alone.

Anecdotally, it seems to me that, on average, the most successful members of our society are lonelier than the average - celebrities go on about it a lot.

Luckily, people are motivated by different things. Many people are glad to be financially poor but well loved in their communities. Others prefer the alternative. None of this is good or bad unless it feels so to you. Was becoming more popular but distanced good to you? If not, I can certainly see why you might want to tone down the charm :-)

I'm much happier with real mutually respectful relationships - the kind you can't establish by acting like a politician. I find every time I play these flattery games with long term relationships, it keeps things rolling, but leaves a deep division.

This book is great for people who want to establish a network or run for office. It also provides food for thought in more personal relationships, but it's dangerous to act this way to real friends.

"Lie, Cheat, Steal, and listen to heavy metal music."

or was that something else?

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