CurrentC Ends Beta Tests, Will Deactivate Accounts | Hacker News Reader

CurrentC Ends Beta Tests, Will Deactivate Accounts

consumerist.com

75 pointstaylorbuley59 comments

I'm in awe that some sales person was able to sell Walmart, Target, BestBuy, CVS and all these other stingy retailers on a payment system like CurrentC/MCX. Any B2B enterprise focused startup would be wise to find and poach these guys.

That aside, I have no sympathy for MCX's demise. These guys started out trying to charge $30k just to view their PowerPoint deck. $1m to join the consortium and get a board seat. This may seem like pennies to these billion dollar valuation startups, but retailers are a different breed not willing to spend a dime on anything that hasn't been proven.

At my last retail job I was was pitched by these guys (without the PPT fee) and had a hard time keeping a straight face when they said they wanted the consumers to give up their bank account info right after the Target breach, but somehow they found a whole bunch of backers.

I wonder how much of that was Walmart driving it. It'd be a pretty easy ask given that most of these companies have a hatred for the 2-3% credit card fees they give up.

Yes, MCX probably took advantage of the retailers' deep hatred of the swipe fees they pay to the banks.

We had a similar concern about MCX's competitor ISIS (name later changed to Softcard for obvious reasons) because our finance team feared that it might shift too high of a percentage from Debit transactions to Credit which cost a slightly higher percentage.

> I'm in awe that some sales person was able to sell Walmart, Target, BestBuy, CVS and all these other stingy retailers on a payment system like CurrentC/MCX.

It's not as hard as you'd think. I previously worked for a start up that sold Walmart on a POS system that was absolutely terrible (the codebase didn't even have any tests). The big retailers like Walmart have a sort of "throw money at everything and see what sticks" approach to technology. They regularly sign contracts to try out new tech but only in one or two stores. If it works well, they scale up to more stores, but that almost never happens.

This seems like a completely reasonable approach. New IT at scale is often more of a risk than a benefit for companies like Walmart.

For someone presumably involved here, you seem pretty misinformed...

>> Walmart, Target, BestBuy, CVS and all these other stingy retailers

^^ These retailers ARE who came up with the idea. They are the ones who evaluated how much and for how long it would be worth it to invest in MCX, and they are all part owners of MCX, so are well aware of any decisions being made. Until MCX files for bankruptcy, it is safe to say that they still believe the cost is worth the potential payout.

A little back-of-the-envelope math:

Wal-Mart: $482B in revenue (2016, projected), if they're paying ~3% on average for interchange/credit card fees, that's $14.5B they could have saved last year.

Target: $74B, $2.2B they could saved.

CVS: $153B revenue (2016, projected), $4.6B in savings.

That's a pretty easy sell. Those are tremendous amounts of money they're "spending" that they'd love to ditch. Granted they get a lot for that (credit card companies take on a lot of risk), but if they could shave those numbers down, that's a lot of pure profit they could get.

It's gotta be a lot less than that. Most of Walmart's customers are probably using cash/debit/EBT since they cater to a population that is more price sensitive and less likely to use credit cards.

> but somehow they found a whole bunch of backers.

Well no, they wanted something like CurrentC because it would give them access to so much consumer data.

A company pursuing what's best for itself instead of what's best for consumers (I was going to say customers, but in this case it seems like Walmart is the customer) and creates a bad product. Glad to see it didn't take off. Even credit cards are more convenient and come with anti-fraud features.

Oh yeah. When you installed the CurrentC app it requested permissions for your phone log, text log, and even your health data! Just outright 'data mining'.

I was part of a meeting at retailerX where a VP or mid-level manager that was representing the company at CurrentC gave a talk. As she told it things were going swimmingly and she talked about her lead and how she and retailerX were respected by the other retailers for their IT prowess. After that meeting I knew CurrentC was dead. This lady was chosen to lead the project and most mid-level managers at retailerX were completely incompetent. RetailerXs IT department is staffed by H1-Bs and get things done through brute force. If that's the best they could find they were in trouble from the start.

Wal-Mart made the wise decision of going solo and launching their own app a little bit later. From what I hear Wal-Mart labs has a great staff.

Does this mean CVS will re-enable Apple Pay on their CC readers?

It's not Apple Pay but all of NFC. Before CurrentC CVS accepted all types of NFC payments (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, NFS credit cards), but none of those works anymore.

I stopped shopping at CVS out of protest at this silliness.

Hopefully whatever technology Samsung is using to power Samsung Pay catches on. It sends a magnetic field where you normally swipe your card. That "tricks" the machine into thinking a card was physically swiped. The terminal doesn't need to support NFC and it works even if NFC is turned off (as is the case for CVS).

This won't be a long-term solution as the magnetic stripe is a legacy technology that's being phased out. Lots of US merchants already require the chip (if available on the card) instead of a magnetic stripe, and almost all European merchants only accept chip cards (and don't even have a reader anymore for the magnetic stripe).

I'd love to hear an actual beta tester's experience with this app. I shop at a local CVS a lot because of its location, but their ever-more-complicated schemes to get me addicted to couponing (I guess that's their goal, but regardless it ain't gonna happen) may eventually be enough incentive to get me to drive an extra mile to go to a store that doesn't actively try to waste my time. I seriously considered not returning the time the cashier walked around the counter, and took me over to a kiosk in the aisle to scan my card, wait 30 seconds for several coupons to print, then pick out and tear apart the one that was going to save me 25 cents on my two-liter of soda. This with people in line. No, it's not worth it to me or to you, surely! Luckily it hasn't happened again.

What I read about CurrentC's process reminded me of that debacle. I'm genuinely curious who enjoys this stuff or what the consumer theory is behind making shopping at a convenience store more of a hassle.

Just read the reviews on the Google play store. It's not pretty.

I've had mixed success with Android Pay; the one time I needed to use it (forgot my wallet) it worked at Trader Joe's.

Most of the time, though, I spend 30 seconds trying to get things lined up properly between my Nexus 6 and the sensor, then give up and use plastic instead.

ApplePay on my 2 year old iPhone is very reliable. The only problem with contactless payments is the fact you still have to sign the receipt and tap through the purchase.

Completely defeats the convenience of new tech.

Who's to blame for that cluster?

Depends on the kiosk/retailer configuration: only a few of the retailers in my area support it, but I've never had to sign a receipt.

> ApplePay on my 2 year old iPhone is very reliable. The only problem with contactless payments is the fact you still have to sign the receipt and tap through the purchase.

That's definitely up to the retailer (or more likely the gateway they are using). The one I use Apple Pay at most often used to do that and then switched to the more sensible no-sig policy.

To add a 3rd opinion, it has to do with the Merchant Classification Code (as defined by VISA/AMEX/MC), and the deal negotiated by the merchant with their Merchant Acquirer which is mostly a matter of who takes on the risk and how large the transaction volume (in $) is.

In the UK Apple Pay is everywhere. And you don't have to do anything, just tap the phone. No receipts, no signing.

What's amazing is how often people are shocked by it when I use it. It's, what, almost 2 years old? I get it when I'm at a gas station in the middle of nowhere in New Zealand, but just a day or two ago I used it at some retailer in the SF Bay Area and they had never seen anyone use their phone to pay before.

It still sucks that you can't rely on it being at most places, though, because it means you still have to carry a credit card or cash if you're out for a run or bike ride and might want to grab a snack.

I put a $20 bill in my phone case.

I think WeChat has this right with scanning a QR code to pay. I like the idea of NFC payments, but like you said… it tends to take a while of fumbling around to actually get it to work.

It's really smooth on my 5X, FWIW. I unlock the phone with my fingerprint, hold it over the thing, it vibrates and then I'm done. I'm using it daily.

Meanwhile Apple Pay is not doing much better. I tried it a couple of times with my iPhone. I had trouble getting it to work and it was definitely more troublesome than getting out a credit card. It would be enormously useful if I could use it to pay online merchants, which would keep me from entering address and payment info on my iPhone. But I have seen no such merchants and do not know if such an option is even possible at this point.

"Not doing much better?" Please, this CurrentC thing was a disaster from start to finish. I mean I'm sorry you don't like Apple Pay and all but that's just silly.

I use it every day but I do wish it were accepted in more places. I walk to whole foods and Peet's and typically do not have my wallet with me. It's pretty fast. You can use it online, but only through apps (amazon, fandango etc) since it uses the touch authentication. IRL I use my watch, for online purchases of course I use my phone.

Yeah, I gave up on Apple Pay a few months ago. It's easy and fast when it works, but figuring out whether it's going to work is a massive hassle. Simply looking for the NFC symbol is not enough. Some places don't actually enable it, and some places enable it but still don't work. It's easier to just go for a credit card than it is to try my phone and then possibly switch to the card.

On-device payments are possible, and those work pretty nicely. I've used it with Uber before. I don't think it's possible to use them with random merchants who don't have iPhone apps, though.

Apple Pay processes tons of transactions daily, Current C can't actually launch their product because it's so bad. The drugstore in my building supports Apple Pay so I use it all the time and I like it more than a credit card because of the anonymity (the retailer can't track my sales). I'd really like it if gas pumps would start supporting it as they are common sources for skimmers.

As for paying merchants online (opposed to in an app , that is supposedly coming:

http://www.recode.net/2016/3/23/11587214/apple-pay-coming-to...

There a gas station chain around me that accepts Apple Pay at the pump. I'll go out of my way a little to go to one of those when I can.

I use it everyday. Mostly at vending machines but also anywhere else it's available. Using it with the Apple watch is even easier. Works every time for me... Wish it was accepted everywhere.

I have no problem using it every where NFC POS terminals are here in Portland. If more places that use square had NFC reader I would be using apple pay well over 80% of the time.

On a recent trip, I think it was in Copenhagen, many vendors who used square-like setups also had a bluetooth-or-something connected round dongle paired with their tablet they used for NFC and EMV payments (as many of those terminals are mag stripe only without the dongle). Quite cool.

https://squareup.com/contactless-chip-reader

Do bear in mind that there is better contactless support in other countries – that's probably one of the reasons Apple Pay is less convenient to use in the US!

In the UK, at least 1% of all transport payments in London use Apple Pay – a pretty huge volume considering. It's also universally accepted wherever there is contactless support (which over here is now becoming ubiquitous).

Just to add to this, Mastercard and Visa have set a 2020 limit for all card machines in Europe to support contactless payments.

The readers they use for Oyster card, and the specifics of Oyster Card's requirements for the NFC transceiver are probably quite different from VISA/MC. The US has many transit systems that use contactless too. Off the top of my head, from years ago: Atlanta, D.C., New York, Las Vegas, and that was in '06.

You can use contactless across TfL services as of a few months ago.

Sorry, I did mean "contactless credit cards" rather than "generic contactless system" – the word "contactless" is almost exclusively associated with payment cards in the UK.

TfL's network has supported direct use of contactless payment cards for > 6 months now, so Apple Pay (and the Android equivalent) support comes for free.

Having worked in NFC payment terminal development, I think we just speak different lingo.

Apple Pay has been a godsend for me. I carry one backup debit card and slimmed my wallet down to almost nothing.

In Canada, we've had contactless terminals everywhere for a few years, so it's very rare to find a place where I can't just tap my Apple Watch or iPhone to pay. There's no need to find a place to explicitly supports Apple Pay, it works the exact same way our credit and debit cards have for years.

While Apple Pay might not be as convenient and simple as a world that only swipes credit cards, the spread of chip readers makes Apple Pay look comparatively convenient. First you do the dance of trying to figure out if the chip reader is actually enabled. Then for a lot of readers you have to wait a really long time with your card in the reader. And it's easy to mess up and pull out the card too early. With Apple Pay you just feel a little silly smacking your phone or watch up against a wireless reader.

The chip readers are such a disaster. I can't believe they are so slow.

What's interesting is that the ISO standard for NFC is derived from ISO 7816 standard for chip cards; and, NFC has to transmit at 13.56MHz while chips have a wired connection. I'm not sure what is going on there exactly, but it doesn't make much sense (at least before diggin' deeply into the specs).

It depends a lot on the terminal. I've been using a chip card for over 6 years now, and here in New Zealand we use cards for almost every payment.

The first generation of chip terminals were horribly slow, they took far longer than a swipe. They also wore out really fast - the spring contacts would stop making proper contact with the card leading to failed transactions.

The current generation (fourth I think) is much faster and more reliable. They can read the chip faster than contactless, there's still the PIN entry though.

I'm not sure how it is in the US but here most retailers rent their terminals so get reasonably regular upgrades.

I don't know how deep this rabbit hole you want to go down, but the speed of the transaction also depends on the actual chip in the card (ASIC), and the transceiver in the terminal. These chips do have to perform a cyptographic transaction while using power from the terminal. I wonder how much filth on the card causes poor connectivity(?). The max data rate for NFC is 848kbps (IIRC); not sure about contact smartcards, but it should be faster than that.

That's what is surprising to me, the chips are new in the US so the terminals that support them are also all brand new. I'd say it's a good 7 seconds on average, but sometimes even longer. Apple Pay is 1 second or less most of the time (though sometimes you have to sign so that slows things down).

This is the exact reason why I switched from CVS to Walgreens. The chip readers CVS uses are cumbersome and slow, taking 30-45s to complete the transaction. Walgreens, on the other hand, takes less than 10s when I use Apple Pay.

I use it about 4 times almost every day. I've used it to buy food, coffee, groceries, restaurants, even tickets for a sports game. It has always worked flawlessly. Never had an issue with a terminal, never got any weird errors, never had any fraud issues. Give it another try. I personally love it. I even pay with the Watch.

PS: What's with the downvotes? No positive experiences with a product are accepted?

My android pay works pretty seamlessly; it's slightly easier than my chip card. Except it only works at a couple of stores, so I never even think about using it.

WholeFoods has it setup well, but that's the only store I've come across that has it. I think it's about the same speed as digging out my credit card. I just wish more retailers would enable it for their machines.

My Austrian bank revived the NFC sticker (looks like this: http://help.orf.at/v2static/storyimages/site/help/20160622/e...). You just stick it on anything (for instance on your pebble or normal watch) and it pays on contact and the payment confirms by PIN if > 15EUR.

Since the sticker/card independently already hooks up with my devices anyways (sends me a confirmation push to my phone) I don't actually understand why I need NFC on the phone.

Url changed from http://www.recode.net/2016/6/8/11888834/mcx-currentc-payment..., which points to this, with added linkbait and gloating.

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