Comment by graham1776 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by graham1776 | Hacker News Reader

The one thing I always tell anyone on the job hunt, which few ever seem to take me up on: Informational Interviews. These are informal "can I take you out to coffee?" talks with people in your industry to see what they are working on, what is happening with them, what is going on in the industry. Every job I have ever gotten is through informal meetings with people I have met through my network (whether its the current newspaper, your friends, parents, relatives, or other).

At the end of every one I ask: "Is there anyone else you think I should talk to?" and "Do you currently have any opportunities at your company for me?". Rinse repeat.

I guarantee investing in 30 informational interviews will yield huge dividends vs. 30 career fairs, a personal pitch deck, starting a blog, dusting off your resume, or God Forbid: applying to jobs through Linkedin.

http://www.grahamwahlberg.com/book

I wrote a free guide on this if anyone is interested, would love feedback.

The results from that advice vary wildly depending on your 10 minute personal skills.

I know someone who happens to be extremely likeable that way. In this case, that person also ends up spending very little effort in fostering long term relationships, or doing the job well, but changing jobs becomes easy: Staying at a place is hard.

Someone else I know has Aspergers, so in a 5 minute coffee they appear to be 'off': unlikable. However, after a few months, care for users, coworkers, and technical competence show through: Instead of a very wide network, they have a much smaller one, but the people in it would recommend them for absolutely any job, warning others that the first impression of the dreaded "culture fit" will be very wrong.

Therefore, some people are great at this, are easily liked, and get very far on meeting for coffee. Others that lack those social graces, or are part of groups that are typically prejudged as incompetent, will fail with this shortcut. The solution is probably still networking, it just might be a very different kind of networking than informational interviews.

I've tried advice like this before, and always results in rejection to even talk or after talking a nice referral to a frustratingly useless Taleo application portal. Maybe i'm not asking the right people but in my experience talking to people and hoping for a job goes nowhere.

This hasn't worked too much for me either.

I hear this often, and yes it can be very frustrating to get rejections. I've done 200+ informational interviews over my career, and probably gotten turned down by 2000 requests. I wrote a post about this problem specifically a while back: https://grahamwahlberg.com/2016/03/22/informational-intervie...

But summary is:

1) Are you the people you are reaching out to “warm contacts”? By that I mean is there someone you know who knows them? If not you may want to try to start with people you already know.

2) What level of experience are you targeting for coffees? 1-2 yrs experience engineers? 5-10? 30-40 years? I have found that targeting people your own age yields worse results, but people just a little ahead of you in their career are more likely.

3) What kind of people? Some people are intimidated by going to coffee with someone new and some aren’t. If you can (and this is tricky) figure out who is more likely to say Yes.

> 1) Are you the people you are reaching out to “warm contacts”? By that I mean is there someone you know who knows them? If not you may want to try to start with people you already know.

So, people with already a well developed social capital are doing better of people without it. News at 11.

The point is that having this "social capital" is not neutral or random.

It's a process where the objective isn't a job, but to get to know people and "make your own luck".

Personally, I find it really swarmy, but the purpose is legit -- talk to people that you don't have to talk to because you work or go to school with them.

For some people, doing the Silicon Valley coffee thing is a meaningful thing. It may not be for you. Maybe talking to an ex-coworker, reaching out to wish someone Happy Birthday on the phone, or something similar makes more sense to you.

I got my first consulting gig because a farmer I worked for as a middle schooler sent a vendor my way when I was in college. I'd drop by and say hello a couple of times a year when I was in the neighborhood. Humans are social creatures!

Attend meetups, cold emails don't do much for me when I receive them. If I've already spoken with you, or I've met you - that's a different story.

Any advice for doing this when you're in the middle of nowhere? I've heard of patio11 doing something similar via skype, but it just seems odd to invite people for coffee via skype or hangouts.

I've been on the other side of this a few times. Doing a Skype call is far less effective in getting me to help place someone relative to in person coffee. Better than nothing, though.

I think this is really hard to pull off. Your best chance is to work on some project that will show off your skills, even if it is your own side project and then proactively contact companies.

Open source projects might be a good idea because there you'll be working together with other professionals that might recommend you if you make a good impression.

Work on open source. Be active on message boards and other social places online where your target community spends a lot of time (twitter, etc). Write blog posts about things you've done and share them in those communities. It's not super fast, but it casts a wide net. And then even if people don't know you, they know about you. Eventually a lot of people will be like "hey, it's lj3, who always responds with intelligent and well-thought out answers... oh, and didn't lj3 write that cool proof of concept for x thing?"

And then you look for people you've interacted with in the community, see where they work, and talk to those people about whether or not their company is hiring. Always ask, even if their careers page doesn't have anything. You never know when a new headcount may have opened up, and just hasn't made it to the careers page yet.

Good luck!

And 4000 hours of free time later, You've got a job :P!

Anyone who already has a network is someone who either isn't looking for a job, or who will already find one without any help or advice for you.

For actual computer nerds, they may not have much of a "network". And so there's no one to ask out for coffee. And for them, your advice just sounds strange.

No, this is exactly who needs this. People who have a network are already doing this on daily/weekly basis without even thinking about it.

Identify someone you'd like to have in your network, and approach them. Start with people you find approachable, someone "in your league", but perhaps a few years ahead of you, and work you way up. If you show a modicum of modesty (so, perhaps your first approach isn't Elon Musk) and be unfailingly polite and respectful, most people are in fact flattered that you want their advice.

After each interaction, evaluate it for yourself, and improve your approach. Rinse and repeat.

I agree. What I do as a consulter is to make sure I do a good job (therefore I don't take any project if I don't think I'm a good fit) and then make sure that I stay in touch with my clients and some of their employees in the future. (having a lunch from time to time, or a coffee)

That's why I didn't have to actively search for clients in the last ten years. Employees switch jobs and remember me when their new employer has a project that fits my skill set.

They recommend me and I get the project. In most cases the project/position is never even advertised anywhere before I get it.

This sounds like great advice that I never would've heeded when I was younger. I've just found a job but I'll keep this in mind for the next time.

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